I'm having big trouble when trying to make a main theme.
I've been playing piano for 10 years, I could improvise for over een hour with lots a chords and little melodies, but to get the main theme seems to be a big problem for me.
Would you know some tips on how to get structure in a song and how to make up a main melody?
Thanks in advance.
How to produce filmmusic?
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- KVRist
- 106 posts since 4 Aug, 2003 from UK
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- KVRAF
- 3002 posts since 24 Nov, 2003 from Heidelberg&Hamburg
Nice tip, above (soniccontrol). And if I were you I'd ak Putte at KVR here or go to www.putte.de. He makes music for films and is extreeeemely helpful from what I read here. And has nice mp3s on his website.
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- KVRian
- 897 posts since 2 Aug, 2001 from norway
i'd just give up and tell them to hire me instead 
heh, ill give a decent answer later but im on my way out
heh, ill give a decent answer later but im on my way out
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- KVRAF
- 2401 posts since 29 Dec, 2002 from In the dark
Take my ideas as advice from a novice, but I'll give it some try:
1) Start composing on paper. When I work on something I use MS excel as a notepad.
2) Break down the song down to different passages. Where normal songs will have an intro, verse, bridge, chorus structure, film music works in passages that usually do not repeat in the same way as hit songs. Each passage will have a start time (usually in SMTP code, i.e. minutes, seconds, frames but you can do it in measures too). In film, the breaks (or hit points) usually depends on events in the film.
3) For each passage, assign some expressive intend. Does it need to be happy, sad, intense, etc.
4) Decide on themes. Assign themes to certain events, places or characters in th film. One song (or cue) may contain many themes that may reappear in other cues. Keep them as few as possible though. After assigning the theme names you can compose these themes. It may be a simple synth sound, a one bar melody or sometimes a whole elaborate melody. Compose the melodies as one-liner piano pieces at this stage.
5) Copy the themes to places where they have to repeat and make variations on the themes (transpose to different keys etc).
6) Start to "orchestrate". Assign the basic characteristics of each passage according to the expressive intend, i.e. bright, dark, etc.
7) Assign the main melody to an instrument. Decide if you want the strings to carry the melody, or guitar, or flute etc. You do not have to stick to a single instrument for each passage.
Compose counter melodies. In film music this is often done with synth pads or strings, brass and winds. Counter melodies also play an important part in doing transitions from one passage to another.
9) Add the background material. This is often the percussion, harps, flutes or piccolo etc.
10) Review everything by changing the melody according to the instruments playing it and checking the ranges. A good knowledge of orchestration helps. I still keep my copies of Rimsky-Korsakov and Forsyth handy when doing this part.
1) Start composing on paper. When I work on something I use MS excel as a notepad.
2) Break down the song down to different passages. Where normal songs will have an intro, verse, bridge, chorus structure, film music works in passages that usually do not repeat in the same way as hit songs. Each passage will have a start time (usually in SMTP code, i.e. minutes, seconds, frames but you can do it in measures too). In film, the breaks (or hit points) usually depends on events in the film.
3) For each passage, assign some expressive intend. Does it need to be happy, sad, intense, etc.
4) Decide on themes. Assign themes to certain events, places or characters in th film. One song (or cue) may contain many themes that may reappear in other cues. Keep them as few as possible though. After assigning the theme names you can compose these themes. It may be a simple synth sound, a one bar melody or sometimes a whole elaborate melody. Compose the melodies as one-liner piano pieces at this stage.
5) Copy the themes to places where they have to repeat and make variations on the themes (transpose to different keys etc).
6) Start to "orchestrate". Assign the basic characteristics of each passage according to the expressive intend, i.e. bright, dark, etc.
7) Assign the main melody to an instrument. Decide if you want the strings to carry the melody, or guitar, or flute etc. You do not have to stick to a single instrument for each passage.
Compose counter melodies. In film music this is often done with synth pads or strings, brass and winds. Counter melodies also play an important part in doing transitions from one passage to another.9) Add the background material. This is often the percussion, harps, flutes or piccolo etc.
10) Review everything by changing the melody according to the instruments playing it and checking the ranges. A good knowledge of orchestration helps. I still keep my copies of Rimsky-Korsakov and Forsyth handy when doing this part.
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- KVRAF
- 2401 posts since 29 Dec, 2002 from In the dark
I'm sorry if I caused you sadness.vista wrote:@Sepheritoh
OK, your 2 cents !
I know it was worth only 1/2 a cent.
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- TopModernGeezer
- 2679 posts since 14 Mar, 2001 from Stuttgart, Germany
hallouh djones
I bet you can even catch your melodies in your sequencer, right?
So why dont you just pick one of these melodies, concentrate on it and start working the rest of the music around it?
if you´re talking filmmusic it should of course fit to the picture, actors and meaning of the scene .. depending on what kind of emotion the music should add to the pictures.
Can you load up a movie into your host?
If so you could just start practising.
What i sometimes do is to load a scene into logic audio (as quicktime), fire up my malmsjö piano, and then start improvising, in a loop. Then i sit back, listen to what i played, and hope to find the loop within the loop, which then will be the melody of that scene .. and then i care for the sounds around the melody.
cheers .. and good luck!
and thanks klemperer for the kind words
putte
so can you record your playing?djones wrote:I could improvise for over een hour with lots a chords and little melodies
I bet you can even catch your melodies in your sequencer, right?
So why dont you just pick one of these melodies, concentrate on it and start working the rest of the music around it?
if you´re talking filmmusic it should of course fit to the picture, actors and meaning of the scene .. depending on what kind of emotion the music should add to the pictures.
Can you load up a movie into your host?
If so you could just start practising.
What i sometimes do is to load a scene into logic audio (as quicktime), fire up my malmsjö piano, and then start improvising, in a loop. Then i sit back, listen to what i played, and hope to find the loop within the loop, which then will be the melody of that scene .. and then i care for the sounds around the melody.
cheers .. and good luck!
and thanks klemperer for the kind words
putte
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 412 posts since 31 May, 2003
Maybe I should try this!putte wrote:hallouh djones
so can you record your playing?djones wrote:I could improvise for over een hour with lots a chords and little melodies
I bet you can even catch your melodies in your sequencer, right?
So why dont you just pick one of these melodies, concentrate on it and start working the rest of the music around it?
if you´re talking filmmusic it should of course fit to the picture, actors and meaning of the scene .. depending on what kind of emotion the music should add to the pictures.
Can you load up a movie into your host?
If so you could just start practising.
What i sometimes do is to load a scene into logic audio (as quicktime), fire up my malmsjö piano, and then start improvising, in a loop. Then i sit back, listen to what i played, and hope to find the loop within the loop, which then will be the melody of that scene .. and then i care for the sounds around the melody.
cheers .. and good luck!
and thanks klemperer for the kind words
putte
But is it possible to load in a DVD into Cubase sx?
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- Banned
- 4026 posts since 27 Jan, 2004
I would be far easier to just make a piece of music and see if it fits!
That´s how I do it (with some knowledge of the scenes in question)
Often, movies with a lower budget just license a tune that fits the theme of the movie...try to make a tune that fits and don´t be too worried about the actual contents untill you have found a working theme.
That´s how I do it (with some knowledge of the scenes in question)
Often, movies with a lower budget just license a tune that fits the theme of the movie...try to make a tune that fits and don´t be too worried about the actual contents untill you have found a working theme.