All good things come to those who wait.. the Synth Squad 2 thread

[ericj23]

I believe every thread should devolve into character attacks and witch-burning. It really helps the discussion.

I just can't believe you would suggest something so naive, every thread will become a pointless bun fight

Burn the witch




PS would you mind if I used your line as my sig for a bit

[epiphaneia]

I believe every thread should devolve into character attacks and witch-burning. It really helps the discussion.

I just can't believe you would suggest something so naive, every thread will become a pointless bun fight.

I think he was being sarcastic there...

[Angus_FX]

@VitaminD it's funny, we were accused of the exact same thing when we released the bundle in the first place.

@Uncle E thanks for the summary! Strobe was always a one-osc synth. That said, I think there's potentially room in the line up for a 2/3-osc synth with more features than Strobe and less complexity than Cypher.

@lnikj I think you're over-analysing a little. Most people don't follow every twist and turn in the pricing saga that closely. We don't have any plans for discounting Strobe2 - crazy or otherwise - I don't think we've ever significantly discounted any of the "big" products / major versions in the first 18 months of their existence - but equally I can't rule it out in a year's time. Black Friday and its ilk have certainly become somewhat of a pact with the devil (for everyone, not just us), but the factors driving that are more complicated.. there are now so many discounts on the market that you have to cut extremely deep to be seen through the forest, or not cut at all and accept less-than-stellar sales for what should be the busiest six weeks of the year.

But once more, it should be about what Strobe2 is worth to you - not what someone else pays for it at a different time.

[lnikj]

@lnikj I think you're over-analysing a little. Most people don't follow every twist and turn in the pricing saga that closely. We don't have any plans for discounting Strobe2 - crazy or otherwise - I don't think we've ever significantly discounted any of the "big" products / major versions in the first 18 months of their existence - but equally I can't rule it out in a year's time. Black Friday and its ilk have certainly become somewhat of a pact with the devil (for everyone, not just us), but the factors driving that are more complicated.. there are now so many discounts on the market that you have to cut extremely deep to be seen through the forest, or not cut at all and accept less-than-stellar sales for what should be the busiest six weeks of the year.

Thanks for replying. Understood

[Amberience]

On the second oscillator tip - you kinda can... if you set your patch to have a unison value of 2, and then select one of the unison transmod sources.... you've got an entire 2nd instance of the synth running on that 2nd voice.... at which point, you can tweak the oscillator, the filter, the sub etc.... by using that transmod source.

Also the one thing I remember everyone saying when DCAM Synth Squad was released was that they didn't want to pay the high price for three synths and a combiner, when really all they wanted was Strobe or Cypher. People were constantly asking us to break the bundle apart and price each synth as a single plugin.

We go and do that... and we're still the bad guys! Thanks for the self-esteem boost KvR!!

[Robmobius]

@Uncle E thanks for the summary! Strobe was always a one-osc synth. That said, I think there's potentially room in the line up for a 2/3-osc synth with more features than Strobe and less complexity than Cypher.

That's what I figured to... Strobe was always going to be that. A one Oscillator brute.

And to follow up would be Cypher2, a 3 Osc beastie. And if it has a price discount, for having previously bought synth squad, I'll be happy to buy it.

PS - Strobe2 has a great sound and feature set. Compare that to some of the new Roland plug out synths. They sound great, but don't have half as many features and they are pricey. Not to mention the large cpu.

[VitaminD]

Thanks, guys. Especially to Uncle_E for his detailed response to my hypotheticals.. now this is a conversation!

That said, I was trying to point out the differences in bundling vs un-bundling at the former and now current pricing is probably really confusing to some. A precedent was more or less set that has been broken in some way. At least that is what I'm getting from the responses here with respect to pricing.

And also there is the matter of looking at a bundle of 4 devices priced at 250 USD (so 62.50 each if we averaged, most people average) and now looking at it unbundled and a lone, updated synth out of the bundle is already 180 dollars! So that leaves one to think... wow 180+180+180+180.. 720 dollars potentially vs 250 for effects and a few other items (regardless of how much work those things were to implement). It makes it look extreme (even if this isn't the plan/case).

I think thus many people were expecting synth pricing in the 60-80 range with upgrades around half that... again, that is what I pull from the angry posts here with respect to pricing. Maybe they thought the pricing would work more to their advantage based on previous pricing of the bundle?

[Angus_FX]

And also there is the matter of looking at a bundle of 4 devices priced at 250 USD (so 62.50 each if we averaged, most people average) and now looking at it unbundled and a lone, updated synth out of the bundle is already 180 dollars! So that leaves one to think... wow 180+180+180+180.. 720 dollars potentially vs 250 for effects and a few other items (regardless of how much work those things were to implement). It makes it look extreme (even if this isn't the plan/case).

Think it's a bit unreasonable to speculate on products that haven't even been announced yet. Do you think we'd charge Strobe2 owners full price for Cypher2, bearing in mind how much they have in common?

[uselessmind]

And also there is the matter of looking at a bundle of 4 devices priced at 250 USD (so 62.50 each if we averaged, most people average) and now looking at it unbundled and a lone, updated synth out of the bundle is already 180 dollars! So that leaves one to think... wow 180+180+180+180.. 720 dollars potentially vs 250 for effects and a few other items (regardless of how much work those things were to implement). It makes it look extreme (even if this isn't the plan/case).

Think it's a bit unreasonable to speculate on products that haven't even been announced yet. Do you think we'd charge Strobe2 owners full price for Cypher2, bearing in mind how much they have in common?

Considering the price for SynthSquad i see the full price for just Strobe1 at about 70 to 80$ ($62,5 and considering a bundle discount).
Bearing in mind how similar Strobe 2 seems to be to Strobe 1 the upgrade costs about as much as i reckon Strobe1 would have cost(or about half of double the price of the original).

So its only logical to think Cypher2 costs twice as much ($360) as Strobe2 but the upgrade discount takes it down to $180. Amber then has to be $720 and Fusor $1440.



On a more somewhat serious note, i have to consider the value i get in comparison to what i already have. Strobe 1 included.
So is Strobe 2 really as big an improvement over Strobe 1 as Strobe 1 was over no Strobe at all?
Because that is what i would kind of expect if the upgrade costs the same as the original.

so that values everything else in the upgrade at somewhere between $43 and $4. Think I can live with that...

So how about an upgrade without presets for $43 to $4.

[ericj23]

I believe every thread should devolve into character attacks and witch-burning. It really helps the discussion.

I just can't believe you would suggest something so naive, every thread will become a pointless bun fight.

I think he was being sarcastic there...

O RLY

[Uncle E]

Think it's a bit unreasonable to speculate on products that haven't even been announced yet. Do you think we'd charge Strobe2 owners full price for Cypher2, bearing in mind how much they have in common?

Personally, I was assuming that the Cypher 2 Upgrade from Synth Squad would also be $79. Are you saying it'll likely cost less than $79 for people who own Strobe 2?

[rustman]

Thanks, guys. Especially to Uncle_E for his detailed response to my hypotheticals.. now this is a conversation!

That said, I was trying to point out the differences in bundling vs un-bundling at the former and now current pricing is probably really confusing to some. A precedent was more or less set that has been broken in some way. At least that is what I'm getting from the responses here with respect to pricing.

And also there is the matter of looking at a bundle of 4 devices priced at 250 USD (so 62.50 each if we averaged, most people average) and now looking at it unbundled and a lone, updated synth out of the bundle is already 180 dollars! So that leaves one to think... wow 180+180+180+180.. 720 dollars potentially vs 250 for effects and a few other items (regardless of how much work those things were to implement). It makes it look extreme (even if this isn't the plan/case).

I think thus many people were expecting synth pricing in the 60-80 range with upgrades around half that... again, that is what I pull from the angry posts here with respect to pricing. Maybe they thought the pricing would work more to their advantage based on previous pricing of the bundle?

I say this with respect and tact intended- I tend to lean with what was said here. I had been expecting a bundle upgrade price that would be economical for loyal Squad 1 owners (...and other products). The model I envisioned lies somewhere along with what Arturia recently did with their V Collection update. I was pleased as punch to pay it. I'll certainly consider your new wares, but I'm not likely to bite. Others will. All the best to you.

[Angus_FX]

Personally, I was assuming that the Cypher 2 Upgrade from Synth Squad would also be $79. Are you saying it'll likely cost less than $79 for people who own Strobe 2?

What I'm saying is that in addition to the v1->v2 upgrade path, Strobe 2 owners who don't own v1 are also likely to get a price break on Cypher 2. So VitaminD's suggestion of $720 for the whole collection is way, way off the mark.

I'd also point out that many people only paid $99 for Synth Squad in the first place. So $99 + $79 to get a new $179 synth after (in many cases) years of use out of SSv1 is hardly unfair on existing owners.

[scintillator]

Angus_FX, IMHO it's a mistake to discuss pricing policy in such detail on kvr. Make a FAQ with a few answers, make a few posts to further explain your position - that's it. Don't let yourself to be dragged in into this - there're people for whom it'll always be expensive. They want the best for fifty bucks. How are you to explain to them that Strobe2 has very advanced technology under the hood, which is very rare for synths, that development time and effort costs money, that running a business in the UK is expensive, etc. They'll still want it for fifty bucks. So IMHO stick to discussing features, improvements, Cypher2, etc. Discussing prices is a waste of time and yes, a mistake.

[ATS]

so in order to upgrade to the whole new package we got to pay an upgrade for each piece? Well I'm out.