Which companies have the most reliable and fair policies?

[chk071]

I won't bother to elaborate too much, but some companies I refuse to do business with are listed below.

What about the companies that have the most reliable and fair policies (the OP question)?

I think that has been well-covered so far, and if this thread is typical of others here, I'm sure by page 16 or 20 it will be exhausted.

I have a feeling this thread, and the lots of similar others before it, have the only purpose to praise the always the same companies, which are very popular over here anyway, and smite the companies which always get a rant over here, deserved or not. Lots of people on here for political reasons unfortunately, and probably some companies sockpuppets also. And FL Studio and Reason stalkers. At least i wouldn't call the outcome of a thread like this in any way representative, naturally.

If you mean me by 'praising', 'sockpuppets' and 'stalker', then you are wrong about that!

No, not at all! Why would i? You don't meet any of those criterias. There is this always returning FL Studio stalker, and also people who only registered here to bash on Reason after their official forums were closed. And there were company sockpuppets here too.

There are also a lot of fanboys here who say hooray whenever a dev puts his head out of the office here too tbh. Opposed to companies who mainly work, and don't do much public work, which often leads to bashing, or behavior like "they don't care about their customers", or "they don't listen to what we say", and i just think that's unjustified.

[BBFG#]

I won't bother to elaborate too much, but some companies I refuse to do business with are listed below.

What about the companies that have the most reliable and fair policies (the OP question)?

I think that has been well-covered so far, and if this thread is typical of others here, I'm sure by page 16 or 20 it will be exhausted.

I have a feeling this thread, and the lots of similar others before it, have the only purpose to praise the always the same companies, which are very popular over here anyway, and smite the companies which always get a rant over here, deserved or not. Lots of people on here for political reasons unfortunately, and probably some companies sockpuppets also. And FL Studio and Reason stalkers. At least i wouldn't call the outcome of a thread like this in any way representative, naturally.

I think people look for confirmation. Especially first time shoppers/buyers are looking for the 'nudges' to make a confident choice. And many of those are based in knowing as well as we can who everyone is dealing with and how well that has done for the majority.

Critical thought is a good thing, but it borders the fine line of nonconstructive criticizing and always runs the risk of shutting down an entire thread. Either in administrative action or simple derailments of rant vs. rant.

Perhaps the 'most reliable and fair' are the ones we only ended up dealing with when we download, installed and registered without any further need of anything else from them. Where even updates go so smoothly as to never be a real problem. But maybe that's overly unrealistic?

That said, my over-all most favorable dealings with companies has been with:
AAS; U-he; Camel Audio (RIP); Tone 2; Modartt

Middle of the road (adequate, but nothing to rave over as they do have 'quirks') has been:
Native Instruments; Steinberg; XLN Audio; Aria/Garritan; Izotope. And although there has been some really bad history with them personally, I'll put Spectrasonics in this class as being mostly still adequate also.

Companies that seem fine for now as I haven't had need for any real discourse with yet have been:
Fxpansion; Image Line; Korg; 2c Audio; Music Lab; Overloud; Toontrack

There are only a few that regularly bring up a cringe in me for dealing with.
Cakewalk (but it's mine for life and I have learned where I can minimize it to also minimize the regular problems that seem will never be resolved by them). By stripping away most of their fluzz, it has become quite stable and reliable for the most part. This new Command Center updater, which doesn't let you choose specifically what you want to update and what you want to purposely leave off is a bit of PITA for the moment though. It lists by section more than individuals and leaves me desiring a bit more control there.
And then there's KV331; Peavey; IK-Multimedia; Wusik to round out that section. One I've dumped, two I've pretty much abandoned and one I still have some hope for... although I'm still trying to sell it as something I no longer really use. All potentially great, but the developers have made them mostly unreliable for me.

[chk071]

The thing is probably that i (and others) just don't feel the need to over-praise, or bash on companies, when they dislike their products, or business policies. Seriously, what did we do when there was no internet? If we had a problem with 2 dish washers, we wouldn't have bought a 3rd from the same company. Big deal really. I just feel like people often abuse the possibilities of the net, acting unresponsible. It's that type of Facebook or Twitter attitude i just don't get. Especially when you see that the very same companies use this site for advertising, or product info purposes. And in the worst case, someone forces the dev into getting a refund, or to loosen his transfer fee policiy, by threatening to bad mouth him, or because the company's representative has to do it not to look bad, as recently happened here. Power, and no will to familiarize with the companies policies. Well, in the end, people have to know how to act on the net, but that's not the way i'd want it.

[Elektronisch]

I won't bother to elaborate too much, but some companies I refuse to do business with are listed below. These 'usual suspects' have extensive and shakey reputations and don't need an awful lot said about them in the first place: their issues tend to be known. The reasons vary from very poor customer service, arrogant attitudes, terrible licensing requirements or icky lic. software. All of this, regardless of whether their products are any good. There are almost always great alternatives to anything these sell, and I haven't regretted one minute for avoiding this bunch:

Cakewalk - a company that seems to love leaving its bugs unfixed while adding at least one more bug to each and every update. Meanwhile, now owned by Gibson Guitar, a company that should be king of this list if it sold its own software, Gibson possibly the ultimate worst and most overpriced in products of any company in the realm of music.

IK Multimedia

Native Instruments

UAD

Steinberg - better under Yamaha's ownership but still a bunch of arrogant snots (as is their forum!)

Scuffham Amps - forum stiffling (and dead), licensing writes to boot sector-matrix-potentially dangerous (and foolish)

U-he - products overpriced, never put on sale as opposed to most reasonable companies, service can be slow, firm seems scatterbrained in general

There are 2 or 3 more, but I just wanted to cover what I call 'the big 7'.
Yup, it's some popular products and big names, but if you think you can't live without their goods you are fooling yourself. Believe me, you can produce plenty of hits and make a fortune without them or the troubles they bring.

Tho i agree about cakewalk not fixing bugs but you sound so negative without real reason. What seems mostly a problem for you that products are overpriced. Well its not developers problem you are poor and cant buy. Thats not the reason to judge.

P.s. uhe plugins arent overpriced they are average priced + in a long run you get new features. If you think thats overpriced then sir i have to tell you that you born in wrong time, because then majority of developers are selling overpriced plugins.

[chk071]

Rolf Wöhrmann, the dev of Waldorf Nave said in an interview once that he thinks synth plugins should rather be priced below the 100 € mark, like 99 €, and i tend to agree with that. 150 € plus for a synthesizer plugin is really much money... compare it to other software sectors. I can understand when a DAW costs 300-400 €, but a single plugin for like half of that? Mhhh....

And sorry in advance, i know that's an unpopular opinion, and i respect that people should be paid for their work. But if i was half of a plugin slut as some people, i'd be broke by now... Propellerhead always argued that Reason costs peanuts compared to a hardware studio with all those devices, and that's true. But, it's still software and not hardware, and if PH would sell all the Reason devices separately, they'd take a lot more already, and then they didn't even have the potential hardware manufacturing costs.

[VariKusBrainZ]

price = market tolerance

[chk071]

Definitely. Don't have to go with that though. The last couple of synth i bought were either heavily discounted, or used. I don't think i will buy something full price, not discounted in the near future. It's just too much for me.

[jancivil]

I won't bother to elaborate too much,

No doubt. Or at all in certain cases.

IK Multimedia

Native Instruments

UAD

Steinberg - better under Yamaha's ownership but still a bunch of arrogant snots (as is their forum!)

Scuffham Amps - forum stiffling (and dead), licensing writes to boot sector-matrix-potentially dangerous (and foolish)

U-he - products overpriced, never put on sale as opposed to most reasonable companies, service can be slow, firm seems scatterbrained in general

There are 2 or 3 more, but I just wanted to cover what I call 'the big 7'.
Yup, it's some popular products and big names, but if you think you can't live without their goods you are fooling yourself. Believe me, you can produce plenty of hits and make a fortune without them or the troubles they bring.

Oh, please. For instance, I use things for their sound, by my taste, for what I want to do. This last sentence of yours is of no real meaning to anyone. I think if you've had a lot of hits, you'd be less worried about price.

What seems mostly a problem for you that products are overpriced. Well its not developers problem you are poor and cant buy.

Exactly my reaction. Anyway I've had good experience with NI, in every case, great experience with Steinberg (US), more than once... IK varied but a sin of omission more than of commission. But, I don't tend to need much support. I wonder with people that always have an issue with a vendor's support, what their attitude was when they interacted, frankly.


And perhaps the best service I have gotten is from VSL, very attentive to customers.

[Hank the Knife]

Personally, I don't feel obliged to spread my negative experiences with companies here. I just ask myself what there is to learn from such an experience. Although I've been there/here.

[Jace-BeOS]

'the big 7'

I'll take it as a compliment.

- Urs (proudly scatterbrained as opposed to neurotypically boring and unsexy )

Are there hard core programmers that AREN'T scatterbrained and "neuroatypical"??

[MarlaPodolski]

I won't bother to elaborate too much, but some companies I refuse to do business with are listed below. These 'usual suspects' have extensive and shakey reputations and don't need an awful lot said about them in the first place: their issues tend to be known. The reasons vary from very poor customer service, arrogant attitudes, terrible licensing requirements or icky lic. software. All of this, regardless of whether their products are any good. There are almost always great alternatives to anything these sell, and I haven't regretted one minute for avoiding this bunch:

Cakewalk - a company that seems to love leaving its bugs unfixed while adding at least one more bug to each and every update. Meanwhile, now owned by Gibson Guitar, a company that should be king of this list if it sold its own software, Gibson possibly the ultimate worst and most overpriced in products of any company in the realm of music.

IK Multimedia

Native Instruments

UAD

Steinberg - better under Yamaha's ownership but still a bunch of arrogant snots (as is their forum!)

Scuffham Amps - forum stiffling (and dead), licensing writes to boot sector-matrix-potentially dangerous (and foolish)

U-he - products overpriced, never put on sale as opposed to most reasonable companies, service can be slow, firm seems scatterbrained in general

There are 2 or 3 more, but I just wanted to cover what I call 'the big 7'.
Yup, it's some popular products and big names, but if you think you can't live without their goods you are fooling yourself. Believe me, you can produce plenty of hits and make a fortune without them or the troubles they bring.

Tho i agree about cakewalk not fixing bugs but you sound so negative without real reason. What seems mostly a problem for you that products are overpriced. Well its not developers problem you are poor and cant buy. Thats not the reason to judge.

P.s. uhe plugins arent overpriced they are average priced + in a long run you get new features. If you think thats overpriced then sir i have to tell you that you born in wrong time, because then majority of developers are selling overpriced plugins.

You obviously either did not read my post or you lack any ability to discern what was written. I only mentioned price once of all 7 (and the average synth price is something like $98, with the price of many falling off even lower, plugin effects generally hitting all-time low prices in the last year or more, so your remark is also wrong). Further, I think your literacy skills could be questioned, since you seem unable to read my name. Know any men named "Marla", sir?

But this is just basic silliness. What has become clear from the many responses is that there is a real and functioning attempt at censorship going on here. It's inexcusable and this place would fare much better in some place like China or North Korea. This behaviour is either childish or foolish, probably both. Oh, and it's cowardly to fear posting a criticism also. So, so strange and opposite of the modern-day concept of freedom and the like.

[Urs]

Oh the synth price debate.

I guess (hope) there's no arguing that ACE is great value for money. It's also our synth with the coolest ad, which we run more often in magazines than any other. Yet, ACE is our least popular synth. Hive has outsold (!) ACE in 6 months.

Here's what I think: That's because the pricing debate is BS. People who argue about synth prices don't want cheap plug-ins. They want expensive plug-ins for cheap. The success and "want factor" of a plug-in is directly related to its price tag.

Hence many companies advertise their plug-ins at 200$ but hardly ever sell them for more than 99$. Because they ARE 99$ plug-ins artificially made to look more valuable.

Sorry if we don't play that game, any of it.

[IncarnateX]

Imageline (FL studio and many vsti) non intrusive copy protection,just a simple reg code,lifetime free update,but some updates take a life;-)...the only drawback if you want to sell second hand,you must sell your account.

Is it okay with Image Line if I sell my account, or do you refer to the discussions about whether it is allowed by EU law?

[whyterabbyt]

Further, I think your literacy skills could be questioned, since you seem unable to read my name.

More likely, I think your logic skills should be questioned, since literacy is about familiar with written language, and has nothing to do having an innate knowledge of the gender distribution of forenames, particularly those which might not be intrinsic to one's country of origin.
Not that anyone sane on the internet automatically assumes that a forum name is a real name in the first place.

Know any men named "Marla", sir?

Nope, nor any women. But I do know know people who have used forum pseudonyms of a different gender from their own. Funny that.

[AxxxxDxx]

Sknote, Voxengo, cakewalk,waves, nomad factory, sonimus, propellerheads, in fact they all must be fair in some way or not at all. Im still only using a waves VEQ4 and Vcomp on each channel and its worth every penny of the $49 i paid for the Veq and $69 for the Vcomp. I used to want one of these bundles but couldnt afford them, and the licenseing before was bad enough with the nomad factory copy and paste, the point is Ive seen a change in license options already for the better in waves and nomad factory with serious drops in price due to sales ive made purchases from and I only practise music as a hobby or an art at this minute in time. If I ever get the chance of making money from my music projects I would happily buy all the lot due to the quality alone, Native instruments compressors and fx and most of the others with the one license option are for serious commitment and aimed probably at the professional end of the market so I am actually happy for once because there is actually that much to choose from