Alternatives to EQ and compression in signal processing

[DanielF]

Hello, I'm Daniel. 15 years and started making some noise almost year ago. Logic X and midi controller, monitors and headphones. This is my 1st forum post here, I have been lurking here some time now. Signed in to get more involved. Cool

Thread title sounds a little too fancy, but you get the point.

The mix I'm working now use couple of vst that emulate 'real' instruments.

I don't have any experience with preamps, tape or amps/cabinets. Actually I haven't record anything 'real' than my voice.
I did search about signal in tracking process. Guitar, bass and keys(rhodes, wurly). I also try to find info about tracking synths, but the subject was very convoluted.

After a quite long session I felt quite breakthrough. If you are careful you can use amp simulators to EQ signal. Logic ain't have tape sim, but distortion seems to do something similar, maybe compress a little too?
Pedals in guitar board. I tested those with everything. Drums, synths,...


I think most wonderful thing was bass with amp. I thought that you should keep it mono and be careful about effects/processing that makes signal too stereo/wide. Well, screw that.
Amp(mice'd) did good. It was like bass was lifted the f**k out of my sequencer's grid(forgive my language). I know you can do it with verb, but this sounded better. Especially synth bass can be really stuck in the grid.

Can you tell me about your experiences about this subject?

I'm not try to forget/replace EQ or compression. I'm trying to find alternative ways to give sounds different character.
I also want to point that I'm 1st year newbie.

Thanks again!

, Daniel

[EnochLight]

Hello, I'm Daniel. 15 years and started making some noise almost year ago. Logic X and midi controller, monitors and headphones. This is my 1st forum post here, I have been lurking here some time now. Signed in to get more involved. Cool

Thread title sounds a little too fancy, but you get the point.

The mix I'm working now use couple of vst that emulate 'real' instruments.

I don't have any experience with preamps, tape or amps/cabinets. Actually I haven't record anything 'real' than my voice.
I did search about signal in tracking process. Guitar, bass and keys(rhodes, wurly). I also try to find info about tracking synths, but the subject was very convoluted.

After a quite long session I felt quite breakthrough. If you are careful you can use amp simulators to EQ signal. Logic ain't have tape sim, but distortion seems to do something similar, maybe compress a little too?
Pedals in guitar board. I tested those with everything. Drums, synths,...


I think most wonderful thing was bass with amp. I thought that you should keep it mono and be careful about effects/processing that makes signal too stereo/wide. Well, screw that.
Amp(mice'd) did good. It was like bass was lifted the f**k out of my sequencer's grid(forgive my language). I know you can do it with verb, but this sounded better. Especially synth bass can be really stuck in the grid.

Can you tell me about your experiences about this subject?

I'm not try to forget/replace EQ or compression. I'm trying to find alternative ways to give sounds different character.
I also want to point that I'm 1st year newbie.

Thanks again!

, Daniel

The only way I know to work - at least in my experience - is to get your mix levels right before attempting EQ and compress. Typically you use EQ to cut unwanted frequencies and add some - in moderation - in order for your mix to work, and you compress to help tame loudness and bring up other parts of audio that may be too quiet. If you're using an amp sim in place of EQ or compression, it's likely that you could end up adding/subtracting frequencies that may be detrimental to your mix. Many amp sims automatically have compression and EQ in the signal chain.

Mastering audio and mixing audio can literally take years to learn; there are university degrees on the very subject. But completely eliminating all EQ and/or compression as part of this process seems like an odd approach, IMHO. Well, unless the instruments you are recording (be they voice, synth, guitar, etc) are already at an optimal frequency for your mix - in which case - congrats!!!

[RichieWitch]

Sounds to me like you're looking for overdrive, buzz, and saturation. These are particularly useful for adding life to bass guitars, bass synths, and kick drums--any of the lower frequencies.

I have a Eurorack conversion of the batteryACID guitar pedal, and it does great things with bass lines and kick drums. It adds a layer of distortion that really makes those sounds come alive. I will often use a tube saturation plugin on my bass lines as well, to really make them poke through the mix. For hihats and snares, I have a little tube pre-amp that can be overdriven slightly to add a nice sheen to the upper harmonics of these sounds.

Check your Logic plugins to see what you have in these areas. Otherwise, there are lots of free ones that you can download and try out as well. The amp sim you're using is probably using some of these same techniques, which is what you were hearing that you liked so much.

[JohnD71651]

Just twiggle the knobs until it sounds good to you. At least that's what I do.

But I'd just use compression and EQ, too. No need to restrict the possibilities.

[annode]

Welcome Daniel !
I like any 15 yr old who uses words like 'convoluted'.
I will also respond to two other words you used..."character" and "compression" then suggest trying this free VST;
http://www.kvraudio.com/product/gclip-by-gvst

[DanielF]

Welcome Daniel !
I like any 15 yr old who uses words like 'convoluted'.
I will also respond to two other words you used..."character" and "compression" then suggest trying this free VST;
http://www.kvraudio.com/product/gclip-by-gvst

English ain't my native language. I need translator help sometimes. Occasionally there is funny words.

Like I said in my original post, I'm not going to forget EQ and/or compression.
Just looking options and knowledge.

Cool.

[annode]

Convoluted,character, and compression are not funny words for me.
Try the VST http://www.kvraudio.com/product/gclip-by-gvst that is what I want for you.

[toothnclaw]

I'm trying to find alternative ways to give sounds different character.

Tape, cabinet, speaker, microphone, cassette simulators, vintage chorus/delay fx (wet only, no feedback), the style section in Echoboy, saturation, enhancer, bit reducer plugins, stereo tools, analog mixing desks, psychoacoustic processors, etc. Check out plugins by e.g. Waves, Plugin Alliance, Klanghelm, Variety of Sound, Plogue, Sonimus to get an idea.

[simon.a.billington]

Well compression itself can be a form or subtle eq. If you let more of the transient past the sound will appear brighter and more forward in the mix, capture more of the transient and it can dull the sound and push it back further in the mix.

Running something through a modulation effect can also do something to the transients that have them appear less bright in a mix. Also working with anything that does some type of harmonic enhancement can contribute san effect similar to eq, just be careful not to over use it.

Recording to tape or running a tape emulation can be a substitute for peak compression. Then there is volume automation if you want something transparent. If you want the same kind of balancing effect without spending hours on editing automation, then you could try a tool like Vocal Rider or Bass Rider. I understand to there is another tool out there that does something similar, but I can't remember what it is and who does it.

[chokehold]

Saturation/Distortion is in a way compression. Quieter parts in the signal are made louder and louder parts may be clipped or "limited", which is essentially the same as taming the peaks first and then using make-up gain to bring the track volume back up.

So if you saturate/distort a signal that has little high frequency content but a lot of low-end, the low-end will start being compressed and clipped and become buzzy, but it won't gain a lot of volume; however, the little high frequency content there was to start with will be made louder, and upper harmonics that weren't there before will be introduced. So if applied gently, distortion may work like a "tilt EQ" that lowers the bottom end and brings up the highs.
("Work" not as in "do the exact same thing", but as in "you might perceive it similarly".)

This is also the reason why you have to be gentle with compressors on electric guitars. Their signal is already heavily compressed when they leave the amp, even with "not high gain" settings, making it very easy to over-do it.

Thinking about it, I did create a preset collection for Satin once where I mis-used Satin like a channel strip for SD2 Metal Foundry drums and buses. Was a pretty insightful experiment, being limited to less conventional (and convenient) ways of dealing with shaping sounds. Need some low-end? Adjust the tape bump. Less room? Use the expander algos. Compression? Drive input, restrict headroom.