This explains a lot about Cakewalk/Sonar

[JoseC.]

Okay, it seems I managed to get rid of it - it was just a ridiculously wrong default setting apparently:

NOTE: It is not recommended to select "Enable Read Caching" and "Enable Write Caching". Choosing either of these options lets your software use the Windows disk cache while reading or writing audio data. Your software will usually perform best with all caching disabled, which is the default setting. If your computer has an older IDE disk controller, or a disk controller that does not use DMA transfers, enabling caching may improve audio performance

Yet this was enabled by default on my machine - go figure.

You see...

[trimph1]

Okay, it seems I managed to get rid of it - it was just a ridiculously wrong default setting apparently:

NOTE: It is not recommended to select "Enable Read Caching" and "Enable Write Caching". Choosing either of these options lets your software use the Windows disk cache while reading or writing audio data. Your software will usually perform best with all caching disabled, which is the default setting. If your computer has an older IDE disk controller, or a disk controller that does not use DMA transfers, enabling caching may improve audio performance

Yet this was enabled by default on my machine - go figure.

You see...

I see...and no likey.

[jens]

You see...

I see what? That they enable by default some obscure feature that is meant to improve performance on 15 years old machines? A Feature of which they themselves do not normally recommend enabling it?
Am I supposed to go on a hunt for this (as I ended up doing)?

[Jace-BeOS]

Do you now have gapless playback? I never did, even without screwed-up settings. I'm still trying to understand why Sonar spontaneously removed the Plugin Manager from its tools menu in the middle of working on some project. It's just gone in the 64-bit version. Or the 32-bit version. Or the other way around. The point is: I didn't do it. I wouldn't even know how to remove a menu entry if I wanted to.

[Mystic]

I am not going to file a bug-report - I don't have the time for this shit - I might do it if it was a small company, but I surely won't work for free for Gibson.

Yet you have time to bitch about it on a forum. Yah, that makes a lot of sense.

It's also not "working for Gibson", it's trying to resolve a problem that you're having that they may not be aware of due to only certain people getting them. I'd take a wild guess though and say it's something on your end though rather than the program itself since I've not seen the issue come up at all (not saying it hasn't, but I've not seen it) and they will need to replicate the issue themselves in order to figure out how to fix it.

[Mystic]

Do you now have gapless playback? I never did, even without screwed-up settings. I'm still trying to understand why Sonar spontaneously removed the Plugin Manager from its tools menu in the middle of working on some project. It's just gone in the 64-bit version. Or the 32-bit version. Or the other way around. The point is: I didn't do it. I wouldn't even know how to remove a menu entry if I wanted to.

Try resetting it and rescanning in Preferences > File > VST Settings

[planetearth]

Do you now have gapless playback? I never did, even without screwed-up settings. I'm still trying to understand why Sonar spontaneously removed the Plugin Manager from its tools menu in the middle of working on some project. It's just gone in the 64-bit version. Or the 32-bit version. Or the other way around. The point is: I didn't do it. I wouldn't even know how to remove a menu entry if I wanted to.

Cakewalk didn't remove the Plug-in Manager from the Tools menu. It's still there, at least in version X3e (64-bit and 32-bit versions). It could use an overhaul in the way it "manages" the plug-ins...but it's still there.

And if you don't have "gapless playback", there must be something else messed up with Sonar, or on your system in general.

Steve

[Jace-BeOS]

Do you now have gapless playback? I never did, even without screwed-up settings. I'm still trying to understand why Sonar spontaneously removed the Plugin Manager from its tools menu in the middle of working on some project. It's just gone in the 64-bit version. Or the 32-bit version. Or the other way around. The point is: I didn't do it. I wouldn't even know how to remove a menu entry if I wanted to.

Try resetting it and rescanning in Preferences > File > VST Settings

Resetting what? There's no menu entry for the Plugin Manager. Are you saying that resetting the VST plugins via preferences will also put the Plugin Manager BACK into the Tools menu?

[incubus]

I have A HUGE objection to this (also found at presonus forums)

ANYTHING works w/o 3rd party stuff or doing a vast array of electronic music (EDM is just a tag people that work with audio to mostly belittle electronic music makers, maybe not you personally, but it's a buzzword at the very least) It's simply UNACCEPTABLE that "that" is what a product is based on for the last 10 years.

Seriously, I respect you. You probably know more about this business than I do, but that is absurd observation.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying...
I should have worded my post more carefully.
I don't care *for* bundled content... as I have my personal favorite 3rd party plugins.
I don't care so much *for* included instruments/EFX (for the same reason).
No matter what's bundled, I'll most likely use my favorite 3rd party plugins.

While I'm not personally into EDM, I don't have anything against it.
I was just pointing out there are facets (features) of Sonar that I personally don't use.
ie: I don't do a lot of realtime parameter automation for virtual instruments (common in EDM)
I'm sure that the case with a lot of users. Not all features are applicable to all scenarios.

Within the realm I work, Sonar Platinum is a reliable tool.

I probably should not have been so "hyperbolistic" but that is a trait that I find goes against people trying to get things fixed. Again, I'll use the studio one model as well: Just because a few people don't have issues (because they mostly work with stems and not gobs of drum machines, synths, etc etc) shouldn't be a guideline for what "is and isn't" good.

I understand your point. I understand that you are way above me (I mean that as a compliment) and have great understanding of how things work.

All I was trying to say is for 12-13 years I've been fighting an industry that punishes people trying to use the features that are ADVERTISED that DON'T WORK vs the guy doing audio and everything is fine.

Cake is one of those companies.

[JoseC.]

You see...

I see what? That they enable by default some obscure feature that is meant to improve performance on 15 years old machines? A Feature of which they themselves do not normally recommend enabling it?
Am I supposed to go on a hunt for this (as I ended up doing)?

Come on, man, don't tell me that those defaults were changed by Cakewalk just for you. Those options ARE disabled by default. It just looks like one of those moments when the clever user goes over the configuration menu turning on whatever looks good.

Anyway, glad that you fixed it. Have fun.

[jens]

Those options ARE disabled by default. It just looks like one of those moments when the clever user goes over the configuration menu turning on whatever looks good.

Of course a fanboi like you would come up with an calumny like this... how sad&predictable.

How would you know whether they are disabled by default in Sonar Platinum b.t.w.?

Wouldn't that potentially depend on previous installations, Sherlock, you great knower of Sonar?

It's part of aud.ini and as far as I know every new Sonar Installation is supposed to copy the settings of the previous Sonar intallation over, so without a completely fresh install you wouldn't even know what the default values are.... on my machine there's also X3 Studio and I just had a look at its aud.ini and sure as hell the caching is enabled there too. And why on earth would I tinker with these settings without ever even recording just a second of audio? Maybe you do it like this, but hey - it's never a good idea to judge others based on how you are yourself.

[flugel45]

Got Platinum here, cleanly installed a week ago when I put in my first solid state drive.

Got curious about those settings because I don't remember ever seeing them... Finally, when I switched to "Advanced" there they were...

Both read and write caching are not enabled. Again, this is on a fresh install, no settings saved from before.

Can't speak to X3 or earlier, but Platinum does not have those two boxes checked by default.

[planetearth]

Got Platinum here, cleanly installed a week ago when I put in my first solid state drive.

Got curious about those settings because I don't remember ever seeing them... Finally, when I switched to "Advanced" there they were...

Both read and write caching are not enabled. Again, this is on a fresh install, no settings saved from before.

Can't speak to X3 or earlier, but Platinum does not have those two boxes checked by default.

Sonar does not change Windows' write-caching settings. Cakewalk recommends you do this (as do other websites that offer tips on optimizing your PC for audio or video editing), but they do not change it for you, because they don't know what else will "break" if they change it during installation.

Also, Cakewalk has not remove the Plug-in Manager from the "Utilities" menu in Sonar.

Steve

[Jace-BeOS]

Also, Cakewalk has not remove the Plug-in Manager from the "Utilities" menu in Sonar.

I'd give you a goddamned screen shot to PROVE that it's missing in my 64-bit Sonar and present in my 32-bit Sonar (or visa versa), but my data drive died and the PC is half disassembled. No, that's not license to blame this reported weird Sonar behavior on me or my computer. Why would I make this shit up? Your unwillingness to believe it and your lack of personal experience with the problem doesn't make the problem a fiction.

Sonar does not change Windows' write-caching settings. Cakewalk recommends you do this (as do other websites that offer tips on optimizing your PC for audio or video editing), but they do not change it for you, because they don't know what else will "break" if they change it during installation.

No one is talking about a Windows setting that Sonar changed. The Windows cache setting being discussed is a Sonar settings that, in jens' case, defaulted to the not-recommended setting.

Your failure to comprehend what we say here doesn't make our statements wrong.

And why on earth would I tinker with these settings without ever even recording just a second of audio? Maybe you do it like this, but hey - it's never a good idea to judge others based on how you are yourself.

Common computer problem discussion formula.

The Standard first response from tech people to users that experience software problems said tech people are unfamiliar with: "you must be doing it wrong, because it's fine on my computer".

Second response: "your system must be messed up, because it's fine on mine." This is the fallback position after they're told to kindly piss off with their user-blame. It's still passive-aggressively blaming the user, but now they can say they're blaming the user's computer/configuration in specific (which the user is responsible for).

Almost never do tech people admit that, yeah, computers are inconsistent voodoo that screws some people harder than others for no sensible or measurable reason other than some untested mixture of unknown variables (and no one else cares to work it out because you're a minority situation and it's easier to blame you than admit to fundamental architectural problems inherent in this industry).

A really good tech will admit that, since there's so much that can go wrong with ten thousand variations of computer components and ten million lines of code in an OS, it's probably more impressive that some people have a good experience at all.

[planetearth]

Also, Cakewalk has not remove the Plug-in Manager from the "Utilities" menu in Sonar.

I'd give you a goddamned screen shot to PROVE that it's missing in my 64-bit Sonar and present in my 32-bit Sonar (or visa versa), but my data drive died and the PC is half disassembled. No, that's not license to blame this reported weird Sonar behavior on me or my computer. Why would I make this shit up? Your unwillingness to believe it and your lack of personal experience with the problem doesn't make the problem a fiction.

Sonar does not change Windows' write-caching settings. Cakewalk recommends you do this (as do other websites that offer tips on optimizing your PC for audio or video editing), but they do not change it for you, because they don't know what else will "break" if they change it during installation.

No one is talking about a Windows setting that Sonar changed. The Windows cache setting being discussed is a Sonar settings that, in jens' case, defaulted to the not-recommended setting.

Your failure to comprehend what we say here doesn't make our statements wrong.

And why on earth would I tinker with these settings without ever even recording just a second of audio? Maybe you do it like this, but hey - it's never a good idea to judge others based on how you are yourself.

Common computer problem discussion formula.

The Standard first response from tech people to users that experience software problems said tech people are unfamiliar with: "you must be doing it wrong, because it's fine on my computer".

Second response: "your system must be messed up, because it's fine on mine." This is the fallback position after they're told to kindly piss off with their user-blame. It's still passive-aggressively blaming the user, but now they can say they're blaming the user's computer/configuration in specific (which the user is responsible for).

Almost never do tech people admit that, yeah, computers are inconsistent voodoo that screws some people harder than others for no sensible or measurable reason other than some untested mixture of unknown variables (and no one else cares to work it out because you're a minority situation and it's easier to blame you than admit to fundamental architectural problems inherent in this industry).

A really good tech will admit that, since there's so much that can go wrong with ten thousand variations of computer components and ten million lines of code in an OS, it's probably more impressive that some people have a good experience at all.

They're doing wonderful things with decaffeinated coffee these days, Jace-BeOS. You almost can't even tell the difference anymore.

I am a computer tech, and I know what can happen when menu items "disappear". And when people claim settings "change".

I am also one of the ones who believes there are so many variables involved that, as I have told my clients often (and usually to help them feel they did nothing wrong), "If you knew how much could go wrong, you'd be surprised it even works at all".

And I can show you a "goddamned screenshot to PROVE that Cakewalk did not remove the Plug-in Manager from the 'Utilities' menu", as you claimed they did.

I'm sure others could show you this too, but since you're getting pissed at me, I'll do it, as soon as I get home.

And while I could also offer possibilities as to why yours is missing (and how to put it back), I don't feel the need to do that anymore. I did not "blame" you for it being missing. I simply said (twice, since you ignored it the first time) that Cakewalk did not remove the item.

But at no point did I imply you were "doing something wrong".

And don't go for that Sanka crap. Yes, it's decaffeinated, but it's awful.

Steve