Reaktor 6 blocks and audio rate modulation, feedback. Demo tracks?

[Ah_Dziz]

Since they let let you set the sample rate independent of the host the possibilities have opened up for more wacky modulation. I'm still gonna just stick with v5 til the next Komplete update.

JJ

[atukao]

if you can't hear (and literally feel from your speakers) the difference between these examples and pretty much any other softsynth trying to do the same, then i'm not sure what to tell you. there really is NOTHING else out there (in my experience, and have tried most everything) in the softsynth world that can do stuff like this with such range and articulation. i haven't heard anything like this since i sold my Nord Modular G2. close with some synths, but they were all "just almost there" (even with most anything made with R5). most other softsynths completely fall apart when trying to do stuff like this, or just sound/feel rather piddly in comparison.

Agreed on all points; the difference is quite tangible.

[kmonkey]

I don't get it!

lol, hilarious.

examples like this are just what the OP was asking for (see the thread title), and show exactly how well R6 does extreme modulation. (well, now that i think of it, maybe he was asking for more traditional synth lead or fx sounds using FM/Sync/etc.)

if you can't hear (and literally feel from your speakers) the difference between these examples and pretty much any other softsynth trying to do the same, then i'm not sure what to tell you. there really is NOTHING else out there (in my experience, and have tried most everything) in the softsynth world that can do stuff like this with such range and articulation. i haven't heard anything like this since i sold my Nord Modular G2. close with some synths, but they were all "just almost there" (even with most anything made with R5). most other softsynths completely fall apart when trying to do stuff like this, or just sound/feel rather piddly in comparison.

i think these examples show off what is really possible with R6 far better than just another typical "musical" demo. need another supersaw trance synth? lol, gtfo.

do you have any requests?

No need to be rude and offensive. Sorry i don't listen trance and no i don't need supersaw. I am not trying to discredit your work (i think i was clear about that). It's just that from musical stand point your examples sounds like a synth "farts" to me. And i did not wanted to criticize your work (for example i did not posted anything at all). I am and was amazed that people like you produce such noises and other people "credit" synth based on that noises (am i more clear now?). I was more into this. Not your specific work.

If you or some people around you now are gonna tell me that music world did not existed prior "farts" thing and that all electronic music made up until today used these i am gonna say you are very irrational. While we are at it no i don't judge synth by a supersaw emulation i judge it by the presence of sound, filter characteristics, quality of onboard effects etc. With that in mind i can assure you i am here for more then 15 years and to this date i only had impressive and positive experience with zebra, bazille, monark and predator. Yes there are other nice synths out there but to my sensibilities i had to wait so many years to get good synth. A bit weird.

if you can't hear (and literally feel from your speakers) the difference between these examples and pretty much any other softsynth trying to do the same, then i'm not sure what to tell you. there really is NOTHING else out there (in my experience, and have tried most everything) in the softsynth world that can do stuff like this with such range and articulation.

Yeah i think i get it now. Synth is good for you if it can do superfast modulation without making sound "breaking" in a nasty way is that it? I noticed that softsynth tend to ruin sound in fast modulation but again i was not using it to make sound/noise. But to my understanding and synth usage i am finding that same subject of "articulation" in different aspect (which is one thing why i did not understand your way in the start). There is literally dozen of different things i could say about synth and it's articulation. Example: i am finding korg vector synthezis as something which can be called articulation. Or Yamaha FM.


It may be that you do the same thing as me when testing synths as but it's just that you are using "farts" (i really don't have better explanation) to explore or exploit a synth. Once again i want to apologize if i offended you but clearly that was not my intention. And i appreciate your description. It's a bit more clear now.


I think zerocrossing nailed it probably when he said:

You just have a much more narrow idea of what music is than a lot of us. I used to do a lot of shows doing the kind of thing that's shown in these demos. Some on my own, some with a group called Big City Orchestra. I remember one of the shows we did in the Sacramento Noise fest was standing room only. The place was packed.

I guess i am too old to see any use on synth farting but again no need to call names. Happy music making.

[zerocrossing]

I don't get it!

lol, hilarious.

examples like this are just what the OP was asking for (see the thread title), and show exactly how well R6 does extreme modulation. (well, now that i think of it, maybe he was asking for more traditional synth lead or fx sounds using FM/Sync/etc.)

if you can't hear (and literally feel from your speakers) the difference between these examples and pretty much any other softsynth trying to do the same, then i'm not sure what to tell you. there really is NOTHING else out there (in my experience, and have tried most everything) in the softsynth world that can do stuff like this with such range and articulation. i haven't heard anything like this since i sold my Nord Modular G2. close with some synths, but they were all "just almost there" (even with most anything made with R5). most other softsynths completely fall apart when trying to do stuff like this, or just sound/feel rather piddly in comparison.

i think these examples show off what is really possible with R6 far better than just another typical "musical" demo. need another supersaw trance synth? lol, gtfo.

do you have any requests?

No need to be rude and offensive. Sorry i don't listen trance and no i don't need supersaw. I am not trying to discredit your work (i think i was clear about that). It's just that from musical stand point your examples sounds like a synth "farts" to me. And i did not wanted to criticize your work (for example i did not posted anything at all). I am and was amazed that people like you produce such noises and other people "credit" synth based on that noises (am i more clear now?). I was more into this. Not your specific work.

If you or some people around you now are gonna tell me that music world did not existed prior "farts" thing and that all electronic music made up until today used these i am gonna say you are very irrational. While we are at it no i don't judge synth by a supersaw emulation i judge it by the presence of sound, filter characteristics, quality of onboard effects etc. With that in mind i can assure you i am here for more then 15 years and to this date i only had impressive and positive experience with zebra, bazille, monark and predator. Yes there are other nice synths out there but to my sensibilities i had to wait so many years to get good synth. A bit weird.

if you can't hear (and literally feel from your speakers) the difference between these examples and pretty much any other softsynth trying to do the same, then i'm not sure what to tell you. there really is NOTHING else out there (in my experience, and have tried most everything) in the softsynth world that can do stuff like this with such range and articulation.

Yeah i think i get it now. Synth is good for you if it can do superfast modulation without making sound "breaking" in a nasty way is that it? I noticed that softsynth tend to ruin sound in fast modulation but again i was not using it to make sound/noise. But to my understanding and synth usage i am finding that same subject of "articulation" in different aspect (which is one thing why i did not understand your way in the start). There is literally dozen of different things i could say about synth and it's articulation. Example: i am finding korg vector synthezis as something which can be called articulation. Or Yamaha FM.


It may be that you do the same thing as me when testing synths as but it's just that you are using "farts" (i really don't have better explanation) to explore or exploit a synth. Once again i want to apologize if i offended you but clearly that was not my intention. And i appreciate your description. It's a bit more clear now.


I think zerocrossing nailed it probably when he said:

You just have a much more narrow idea of what music is than a lot of us. I used to do a lot of shows doing the kind of thing that's shown in these demos. Some on my own, some with a group called Big City Orchestra. I remember one of the shows we did in the Sacramento Noise fest was standing room only. The place was packed.

I guess i am too old to see any use on synth farting but again no need to call names. Happy music making.

Who called anyone a name? If you feel less than because of your musical ideas, that's on you. Age has nothing to do with it. I'm 50 and I have friends older then me who are quite into experimental music.

[atukao]

just in case you missed these in the GS thread (??, or for anyone else):

https://soundcloud.com/jbuonacc/r6-01

https://soundcloud.com/jbuonacc/r6-02

https://soundcloud.com/jbuonacc/r6-03

i'm uploading a fourth right now, which is a simple sequence that i was playing around with.

EDIT:

https://soundcloud.com/jbuonacc/r6-04

As a matter of interest, what was the ensemble and project sample rate for the above examples?

[jbuonacc]

No need to be rude and offensive. Sorry i don't listen trance and no i don't need supersaw. I am not trying to discredit your work (i think i was clear about that). It's just that from musical stand point your examples sounds like a synth "farts" to me. And i did not wanted to criticize your work (for example i did not posted anything at all).

sorry for the "gtfo", but it seemed that you were missing the whole point of the thread. there's really nothing "musical" going on here at all, i was just "twisting knobs". these aren't tracks/works/folksongs, i was just trying to see how far i could push it. this is generally how i initially test out a synth, as i know that if it can handle extreme stuff like this then it'll "behave correctly" throughout its entire range. a lot synths get really ugly/harsh/"digital" when they get out of their comfort zone. anyway, i think there's a LOT more going on here than "fart noises". no?

inherently though, high modulation rates (especially when this rate is also being modulated) are generally going to sound like ... farts. no surprise there.

I am and was amazed that people like you produce such noises and other people "credit" synth based on that noises (am i more clear now?). I was more into this. Not your specific work.

If you or some people around you now are gonna tell me that music world did not existed prior "farts" thing and that all electronic music made up until today used these i am gonna say you are very irrational.

not sure what this means. ?? as far as this sort of thing as "art", i think that in the right hands it can be completely legit. as with the guitar pedal noise scene, there a LOT of people that just don't know what they're doing or have no taste or "vision".

... to this date i only had impressive and positive experience with zebra, bazille, monark and predator. Yes there are other nice synths out there but to my sensibilities i had to wait so many years to get good synth. A bit weird.

interesting, haven't tried Predator. i'm also very impressed with the recent Roland emulations, but R6 pretty much killed my immediate desire for those. there's a number of others that sit just below those in my imaginary bs rankings, but they're great as well.

Yeah i think i get it now. Synth is good for you if it can do superfast modulation without making sound "breaking" in a nasty way is that it? I noticed that softsynth tend to ruin sound in fast modulation but again i was not using it to make sound/noise.

yes, exactly this.

But to my understanding and synth usage i am finding that same subject of "articulation" in different aspect (which is one thing why i did not understand your way in the start). There is literally dozen of different things i could say about synth and it's articulation. Example: i am finding korg vector synthezis as something which can be called articulation. Or Yamaha FM.

honestly, you just made me question whether i even really know what "articulation" means in this context, or whether it actually expressing what i'm trying to say. had to look it up again.

2
a : the action or manner of jointing or interrelating
b : the state of being jointed or interrelated

3
a : the act of giving utterance or expression
b : the act or manner of articulating sounds
c : an articulated utterance or sound; specifically : consonant

i think that's close to what i'm saying, in the way that you can clearly hear every element working together and having a noticeable effect on the other components of the sounds. another thing is what i can only describe as "resolution" of the sound, a more "3-D" aspect to it. ?? like there's some "audio magnifying glass" over each element. ?? not sure how to better explain it, but if you've spent time programming Monark then i think you'll get the idea.

It may be that you do the same thing as me when testing synths as but it's just that you are using "farts" (i really don't have better explanation) to explore or exploit a synth.

i think this sums it up, i'd just call these examples "exploratory sessions". sorry for the confusion.

[jbuonacc]

... As a matter of interest, what was the ensemble and project sample rate for the above examples?

actually, i have no idea. i know at least the first one or two was done with one of the factory Blocks Ensembles that had the SKF filter in it. sample rate was whatever the Reaktor standalone default is set to, but i think it changes with the ensemble. recorded using the simple recorder built into R6. might be 44.1 or 88.

sorry, i'll try to check later. general answer though - default values.

[ghettosynth]

not sure what this means. ?? as far as this sort of thing as "art", i think that in the right hands it can be completely legit. as with the guitar pedal noise scene, there a LOT of people that just don't know what they're doing or have no taste or "vision".

Well, other than the reference to farts and electronic music, I think that I get where he's coming from. First, I completely agree with you with respect to the breadth of legit. I have several friends that are really into the noise scene and we've done some collaborations.

But, once you start adding feedback and audio rate modulation to things it's pretty easy to get so much noise that it's difficult to separate the character of the synth in question from the complex noisy harmonics that are generated.

Certainly this is often the case with the "guitar pedal scene" where almost anything works, to some extent, as long as you've got feedback loops going. Does some complex harmonics from a distortion pedal in a feedback loop really reveal the qualities of the, e.g., tube screamer, that make them so popular?

BTW: I really don't like much of anything that I hear in the guitar pedal scene.


At any rate, a lot of the sounds that I hear in this thread seem to be really about the character of the blocks filters where ZDF is prominent. There is really no reason that you can't do the same thing in R5, but R6 blocks just makes it easier for people who don't have a lot of Reaktor experience.

[atukao]

... As a matter of interest, what was the ensemble and project sample rate for the above examples?

actually, i have no idea. i know at least the first one or two was done with one of the factory Blocks Ensembles that had the SKF filter in it. sample rate was whatever the Reaktor standalone default is set to, but i think it changes with the ensemble. recorded using the simple recorder built into R6. might be 44.1 or 88.

sorry, i'll try to check later. general answer though - default values.

Understood, thanks.

[ThomasHelzle]

What I look for are real "insect" noises... ones that have an organic natural character that could actually fool someone into thinking some real creature or physical contraption made the sound. My favorite stuff is when you cannot tell for sure how the sounds were made.
Most of the modular noodling never gets there. It is usually still mechanical and sounds like modular noodling.

That is one main interest for me as well - the area where you can no longer tell if it's natural or not, but it sounds like it "could" be natural, has a certain reality-vibe to it.
I usually land in the area of either physical modelling or sample-abuse, and for that, the possible modulation speed discussed here is actually quite significant.
When I developed my pseudo-random modulation plugin for the modular Usine, I used a saxophone sample in Usines grain sampler and modulated it with my plugin, getting this:
http://www.screendream.de/Site/assets/s ... rdlike.mp3
I don't know the species, but I can see it flutter around in my mind...

I am actually quite confident that the Blocks-library will give birth to a very wide range of things that can be (ab-)used in a much broader way than the first, rather traditional Blocks may suggest.

Writing this, I think I'll see if my modulator would make sense as a R6 block...

(BTW. Xoxos has a number of nature-synth VSTs that can create quite convincing insects, birds, water etc.)

Cheers,

Tom

[pdxindy]

I am actually quite confident that the Blocks-library will give birth to a very wide range of things that can be (ab-)used in a much broader way than the first, rather traditional Blocks may suggest.

Writing this, I think I'll see if my modulator would make sense as a R6 block...

(BTW. Xoxos has a number of nature-synth VSTs that can create quite convincing insects, birds, water etc.)

Cheers,

Tom

I think R6 looks very promising. Not so great workflow though is my impression, right? You cannot wire stuff and listen at the same time?

I wish his stuff (Xoxos) was available on Mac

Here is one of my Bazille examples:
http://draigathar.org/sounds/B61.mp3

[kmonkey]

Who called anyone a name? If you feel less than because of your musical ideas, that's on you. Age has nothing to do with it. I'm 50 and I have friends older then me who are quite into experimental music.

Sorry i wasn't clear "calling names" was pointed to another person who said gtfo and such things- not you - sorry i apologize. Everything fine we are all fine here


And i am happy to know you are older then me after all

[ThomasHelzle]

I think R6 looks very promising. Not so great workflow though is my impression, right? You cannot wire stuff and listen at the same time?

I wish his stuff (Xoxos) was available on Mac

Here is one of my Bazille examples:
http://draigathar.org/sounds/B61.mp3

Great sound

In this one I created the whole "menagerie" from the (Bazille) flute, only one sample is used (a woodpecker from the local park) but everything else is effects in Bitwig working from the flute sound (some of them Reaktor):
https://soundcloud.com/thomas-helzle/di ... al-excerpt
It sounding "in between" natural and digital is intentional in this case.

As for R6: Well, the workflow is not targeted at live wiring, it's more a step in between using ensembles and full blown node development. So it's not Bazille but not too complicated either if you use pre-made blocks.
You can listen while you are editing, but it will not always do something "useful" while you do that...
But much better than for instance Tassman (come on AAS...) in that regard.

Ah - sorry - I forgot you are on OSX.

Cheers,

Tom