KVR Audio

twolegstoneworks · Post by **twolegstoneworks** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:39 am

trimph1 wrote:Would watermarking work?

It would, but it's difficult to implement, as the preset-files rely on the fileformat of any given synth. The most open format I know of is u-he's preset-file, but any included comments in the file would be overwritten if the file is re-saved, which would most likely be the case, if someone claimed the patch as theirs.

Ghostwave · Post by **Ghostwave** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:47 am

While I don't have the time to set up a big club I have an idea:

Let's set up a basic list of members and contact them.
If the idea is liked, we agree on a name for that club and we create a webpage for it with links to the members' pages.
Then each member links back to that site.

And if a new member wants to join, all members get contacted and give their approval. If the majority agrees, then the member gets added.
If a member refuses to link to the club's website or the new member does, he gets kicked.

That's simple enough to implement. No need to check inside the banks. That's too tedious.
If it's a club with serious indie designers with their own websites, we won't be bothered by the "sharks" you mention, who usually don't have their own site and simply put stuff together to sell it on major distribution platforms.

And the cost of hosting and creation/maintenance would be like $1/year.
If fellow sound designers like this idea, I can get the ball rolling.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:46 pm

All I can say is this is very disturbing and distressing news. It's not something I ever thought about as I am relatively new to this business. I guess naively I thought that because it was music and not some shady "how to make money" scheme, people were honest.

This might help explain my dismal sales at least in part but who knows. Maybe my stuff just isn't what people want. On the plus side, if that's the case, nobody will bother stealing it.

Well, I'm all for helping out in any way I can. Might as well do something with my life to help benefit others since I'm pretty much a dismal failure doing this on my own.

So if there is anything I can do to help, PM me. I don't have much, if any, influence in this business and I'm essentially a spec of dirt on your shoe, but if I can do anything to put an end to this, no matter how small, I'll do it.

Ghostwave · Post by **Ghostwave** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:59 pm

Okay guys, I'll get the ball rolling.

I've read what has been written since my first post and think it's a good idea to have such a club as long as it's easily managable.

So I've registered www.cisda.org which stands for Creative Indie Sound Designers Association.
For the name, I chose something that made sense: It's about original work by indie devs who try to make some money with their hard work.
And CISDA is also easy to pronounce.

Now where do we go from here? Who wants to join? What requirements should we implement?
I can also start another thread to discuss all that.
Thanks for your input.

Lotuzia · Post by **Lotuzia** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:16 pm

What SDs need is pretty simple, and its called a syndicate. Not a club. Imho.

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:23 pm

I haven't yet understood the purpose of an “elite“ club for sound designers...the OP was trying to find a way to prevent stolen/copied presets to be re-distributed by assholes, he suggested a tedious system which would require each preset to be checked by qualified personnel/sound designers before these presets would get a “pirate-free-soundware“-badge. Now Karten installed a website without such a quality-approval-sytem, which is just a promo website for anyone who wants to join?

I stopped fighting sound pirates a while ago, many of my libraries and soundsets are up on various torrents, if you remove one of them 5 others appear the next day, it's a fight against windmills, let's use our time for something useful like making new creative sounds beyond the ordinary.

elassi · Post by **elassi** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:23 pm

Lotuzia wrote:What SDs need is pretty simple, and its called a syndicate. Not a club. Imho.

Both terms don't fit exactly, if I understood the idea right.

But that's probably the language barrier.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:27 pm

Sampleconstruct wrote:I haven't yet understood the purpose of an “elite“ club for sound designers...the OP was trying to find a way to prevent stolen/copied presets to be re-distributed by assholes, he suggested a tedious system which would require each preset to be checked by qualified personnel/sound designers before these presets would get a “pirate-free-soundware“-badge. Now Karten installed a website without such a quality-approval-sytem, which is just a promo website for anyone who wants to join?

I stopped fighting sound pirates a while ago, many of my libraries and soundsets are up on various torrents, if you remove one of them 5 others appear the next day, it's a fight against windmills, let's use out time for something useful like making new creative sounds beyond the ordinary.

Having fought this battle in another business, sadly, you're right.

In reality, this is going to be an exercise that will result in nothing more than making us feel better that we've at least tried to do something.

Been doing business online since 2003.

Nothing has changed in the last 12 years.

Lotuzia · Post by **Lotuzia** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:30 pm

elassi wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:What SDs need is pretty simple, and its called a syndicate. Not a club. Imho.
Both terms don't fit exactly, if I understood the idea right.

But that's probably the language barrier.

Trade union or federation if its more accurate.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:40 pm

Lotuzia wrote:
elassi wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:What SDs need is pretty simple, and its called a syndicate. Not a club. Imho.
Both terms don't fit exactly, if I understood the idea right.

But that's probably the language barrier.
Trade union or federation if its more accurate.

Federation? Maybe we should get Captain Kirk to run this thing. He'll overact the thieves into submission.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:49 pm

Just call it the SD Mafia

rob_lee · Post by **rob_lee** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:57 pm

aMUSEd wrote:Just call it the SD Mafia

Illuminati

Ghostwave · Post by **Ghostwave** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:26 pm

Sampleconstruct wrote: Now Karten installed a website without such a quality-approval-sytem, which is just a promo website for anyone who wants to join?

Yes it is about the promotion of original work by indie devs.
No, not anyone will be able to join. There will be requirements that we need to discuss and agree on.
But let's say that being an individual with his/her own website sounds mandatory to me.
Reviewing each member's releases is impossible. It's too time-consuming and not very acurate at best. We're talking about trust here.
I won't change much (if at all) about piracy but it will try to get the potential buyers' attention before they spend their money on the "sharks" mentioned in the OP.
If anyone wishes to join in, add your name to this thread or send me a PM. Once we have enough potential members, we'll discuss how we want things to happen.
I've already been offered free help for the website, which is very nice. Let's make it happen!

SWallace · Post by **SWallace** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:23 pm

rob_lee wrote:
Karten wrote: Well I find Rob Lee's way to "watermark" the banks a little deceptive. I very rarely buy banks but when I do, I want the same sounds as everyone else. And this preset swapping sounds soooo tedious!
1 preset swap out is deceptive out of 128? It's an idea I had for a while but haven't yet implemented but sure I will do. Each to their own though!

Instead of doing a preset swap why not rename 1-3 patches. That way customers get the same patches. Also you can compare the names of those patches as a watermarking method.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:45 pm

SWallace wrote:
rob_lee wrote:
Karten wrote: Well I find Rob Lee's way to "watermark" the banks a little deceptive. I very rarely buy banks but when I do, I want the same sounds as everyone else. And this preset swapping sounds soooo tedious!
1 preset swap out is deceptive out of 128? It's an idea I had for a while but haven't yet implemented but sure I will do. Each to their own though!
Instead of doing a preset swap why not rename 1-3 patches. That way customers get the same patches. Also you can compare the names of those patches as a watermarking method.

I thought about that too but the problem is it's usual to include a list of presets with any release, and even if not, it wouldn't be hard for people to work out which ones have different names, but would take more work to work out if one just sounds a bit different (although still not impossible). I think this method would work best if all presets were the same name and if the 'ringer' just had very subtle differences that would take some effort to work out (maybe even something that has no effect on the sound).

Heads-up to soundware vendors: Soundware sharks preying on newbies.