Experiment:Hearing musical ideas through white noise.

[annode]

When I was in junior high school, I remember having random musical sound(rhythm and melody) running in my head when I was in class.Not songs getting stuck in my brain, but just random stuff.I remember not being able to concentrate in class because of it. One day I asked my teacher about it...don`t remember what he said...but that is what this experiment is about...in essence.
BTW, I lost the music when I developed my new interest in Cannabis in 8th grade.

I know I can imagine musical sound(rhythm and melody)when driving with the radio on and the windows full open with the radio on any station with the volume so low it was just about audible with the wind blowing in.
In other words, I could here random sounds from the radio but not recognize the song, even if I knew it. My brain starts creating music.
What I want to do is do that same thing using radio and white noise through a mixer into headphones. I suspect the brain will do it`s thing and create music by filling in the gaps from the random sounds it hears from the radio and in turn, try to find a way to 'record' those 'ideas' into the DAW seqr.

Just go at it, then listen back to see if any of it is worth building upon.
So why not just record playing randomly then? I suspect it won`t be the same.

If anyone wants to try this, please report back what happens.

[Greenstorm33]

I know I can imagine musical sound(rhythm and melody)when driving with the radio on and the windows full open with the radio on any station with the volume so low it was just about audible with the wind blowing in.
In other words, I could here random sounds from the radio but not recognize the song, even if I knew it. My brain starts creating music.

From the title I thought this thread would be about listening to just white noise, so I came in here to suggest this very thing as an alternative. Turns out that's already what it's about. I've experienced the same thing, and a lot of time the stuff I "hear" actually sounds pretty good. I've read that when people listen to music their brains are constantly using prior knowledge of the song, knowledge of the norms of the particular genre/music theory framework being used, etc. to predict what comes next. Music is all about pleasure derived from having those predictions fulfilled or subverted in interesting ways. My theory is that when you're listening to something you can hardly hear, your brain is free to "fill in the gaps" with these predictions, largely unshackled from the reality of what the music actually sounds like but with just enough grounding to get the prediction gears turning. Because those predictions are based on your subconscious expectations of what music "should" be like, the result ends up sounding like something you enjoy.

[annode]

I know I can imagine musical sound(rhythm and melody)when driving with the radio on and the windows full open with the radio on any station with the volume so low it was just about audible with the wind blowing in.
In other words, I could here random sounds from the radio but not recognize the song, even if I knew it. My brain starts creating music.

From the title I thought this thread would be about listening to just white noise, so I came in here to suggest this very thing as an alternative. Turns out that's already what it's about. I've experienced the same thing, and a lot of time the stuff I "hear" actually sounds pretty good. I've read that when people listen to music their brains are constantly using prior knowledge of the song, knowledge of the norms of the particular genre/music theory framework being used, etc. to predict what comes next. Music is all about pleasure derived from having those predictions fulfilled or subverted in unexpected ways. My theory is that when you're listening to something you can hardly hear, your brain is free to "fill in the gaps" with these predictions, largely unshackled from the reality of what the music actually sounds like but with just enough grounding to get the prediction gears turning. Because those predictions are based on your subconscious expectations of what music "should" be like, the result ends up sounding like something you enjoy.

Thanks for the great info Greenstorm33.
I read about some of those theories as well.
I know great music writers will say how trimming the music to it`s primary essences without unnecessary clutter, support how our brains may be getting pleasures from filling in the 'anticipated' notes/rhythms or adding in our own 'overdubs'.

How this can be laid down is what i`d like to experiment with.

[camsr]

Use pink noise, it sounds more natural.

[annode]

With material i`ve recorded in the past which has a lot of harmonic interaction within it, i`ve noticed that when I convert it to mp3 and only after conversion, I hear different parts 'suggested' within it that I didn`t put into the music. Ha, i`m not a schizophrenia sufferer...it happens when i`ve listen to the piece many times over...as we do when we create something.
I think the mp3 compression changed the music somehow. When listing to it for awhile, it opens up and new parts seem to emerge. Guess that`s another supporting example of how the brain goes off on it`s own.

Going to hook up the wnoise/radio rig tomorrow.

@camsr -

Use pink noise, it sounds more natural.

Reason I said w/noise is because it`s bandwidth is across the full spectrum. (20 -20,000) I`ll try pink as well.

[Lejurai]

Generally white noise just irritates me, but if I force myself to listen to it.. Quite quickly I start hear rhythms and melodies in it. Weird.

[whyterabbyt]

Isnt this in essence what EVP relies on? ie the brain glomming on to perceived patterns, decoding them as best it can, and offering them up as something 'familiar'.

Im not sure Im quite following the mechanics of it. You want to listen to (white) noise, but not hear what you're playing/recording in response to it, is that right?

I guess that could work, although I'd be unsure about the feedback loop (ie your playing in turn influencing what you perceive) not that that's necessarily unimportant.

Personally, though, although Im happy enough to listen to that borders on the mostly-noise end of the spectrum, I suspect I'd find it quite fatiguing, aurally and mentally. Ive always preferred pink noise, I suspect its more 'natural' (ie similar to the kinds of noise one would find in nature, ie wind, surf etc) and with more energy in the low frequencies, I'd suggest there's 'longer' patterns/events in there to be discerned.

[Mushy Mushy]

Not entirely relevant (at all in fact) but I distinctly remember dancing to idling car exhausts after some massive drug fuelled nights.

Anything has a rythym if you listen hard enough Apart from Jews (South Park Cartman joke)

[annode]

@ whyterabbyt
The phenomenon of EVP also crossed my mind but the main difference here is that with EVP, audible fluctuations are not 'deliberately' injected as they are in this experiment.
I also suggest using noise as a masking device which is inherent in communications equipment used with EVP, but not necessarily needed.

It didn`t seem you were clear on the mechanics, as you said...using headphones, a radio music station is playing random music just audibly perceivable as musical notes/rhythm, under the mixed in noise masking source.
I`ve found that the mind, hearing random notes/rhythm, will invent more complete musical phrases in response. My experience with this sort of thing, as I mention above, seems to be musically superior to writing melody/rhythm just off the cuff. Phrases seem to just flow in my imagination. This experiment is not so much to prove that case, but as an exercise to see how these mental musical phrases can be utilized.
How these phrases get saved, is a mechanical unknown.

I`ve been distracted from doing this since posting this thread, but I will try it very soon and report on it here. I set up the receiver in my home studio already, I just need to do this.

[whyterabbyt]

@ whyterabbyt
The phenomenon of EVP also crossed my mind but the main difference here is that with EVP, audible fluctuations are not 'deliberately' injected as they are in this experiment.
I also suggest using noise as a masking device which is inherent in communications equipment used with EVP, but not necessarily needed.

It didn`t seem you were clear on the mechanics, as you said...using headphones, a radio music station is playing random music just audibly perceivable as musical notes/rhythm, under the mixed in noise masking source.
I`ve found that the mind, hearing random notes/rhythm, will invent more complete musical phrases in response. My experience with this sort of thing, as I mention above, seems to be musically superior to writing melody/rhythm just off the cuff. Phrases seem to just flow in my imagination. This experiment is not so much to prove that case, but as an exercise to see how these mental musical phrases can be utilized.
How these phrases get saved, is a mechanical unknown.

I`ve been distracted from doing this since posting this thread, but I will try it very soon and report on it here. I set up the receiver in my home studio already, I just need to do this.

Ah, now I get it. Cheers for clarifying. Definitely sounds interesting, be interested to know it develops!

[annode]

Not entirely relevant (at all in fact) but I distinctly remember dancing to idling car exhausts after some massive drug fuelled nights.

Anything has a rythym if you listen hard enough Apart from Jews (South Park Cartman joke)

Car exhausts!? Hope you didn`t listen tooo long and tooo closely.
Not offended,yet, concerning the joke...but I don`t get it, could you explain that for me? ( I know 'South Park' is inherently offensive.)

[Mushy Mushy]

I don`t get it, could you explain that for me? ( I know 'South Park' is inherently offensive.)

There's nothing more to it to be honest. Certainly nothing Jewish.
Cartman just teases his Jewish friend continuously, and everything he does wrong is simply "because he's Jewish".
Nothing to be read into it. The creators are actually Jewish themselves if you weren't aware.

Anyway, apologies for the off-topic

[annode]

I don`t get it, could you explain that for me? ( I know 'South Park' is inherently offensive.)

There's nothing more to it to be honest. Certainly nothing Jewish.
Cartman just teases his Jewish friend continuously, and everything he does wrong is simply "because he's Jewish".
Nothing to be read into it. The creators are actually Jewish themselves if you weren't aware.

Anyway, apologies for the off-topic

Not a problem Mushy. Just curious.
Never caught on to SP, i`m more of a West Coast bad taste sort, like Beavis and Butt-Head or Ren and Stimpy.

[stonestreet]

When I was in junior high school, I remember having random musical sound(rhythm and melody) running in my head when I was in class.Not songs getting stuck in my brain, but just random stuff.I remember not being able to concentrate in class because of it. One day I asked my teacher about it...don`t remember what he said...but that is what this experiment is about...in essence.
BTW, I lost the music when I developed my new interest in Cannabis in 8th grade.

I know I can imagine musical sound(rhythm and melody)when driving with the radio on and the windows full open with the radio on any station with the volume so low it was just about audible with the wind blowing in.
In other words, I could here random sounds from the radio but not recognize the song, even if I knew it. My brain starts creating music.
What I want to do is do that same thing using radio and white noise through a mixer into headphones. I suspect the brain will do it`s thing and create music by filling in the gaps from the random sounds it hears from the radio and in turn, try to find a way to 'record' those 'ideas' into the DAW seqr.

Just go at it, then listen back to see if any of it is worth building upon.
So why not just record playing randomly then? I suspect it won`t be the same.

If anyone wants to try this, please report back what happens.

Hi,

This seems similar to the following quote that was within an essay on cognition:

"Naeser, M. A., and Lilly, J. C., “The Repeating Word Effect: Phonetic Analysis of Reported Alternates”, Journal of Speech
and Hearing Research, 1971.

Alternates. A single word is spoken once into a tape recorder and the tape smoothly spliced, without
a click, into a loop. The word is repetitively played back with a high rather than low volume. After one or two minutes of listening, from 50 to 150 repetitions, the word clearly perceived so far abruptly changes into another meaningful and clearly perceived word: an “alternate”. After 10 to 30 repetitions of this first alternate, a sudden switch to a second alternate is perceived, and so on 4 .

The following is a small selection of the 758 alternates reported from a population of about 200 subjects who were exposed to a repetitive playback of the single word Cogitate: agitate; annotate; arbitrate; artistry; back and forth; brevity; ca d’etait; candidate; can’t you see; can’t you stay; cape cod you say; card estate; cardio tape; car district; catch a tape; cavitate; cha cha che; cogitate; computate; conjugate; conscious state; counter tape; count to ten; count to three; count yer tape; cut the steak; entity; fantasy; God to take; God you say; got a date; got your pay; got your tape; gratitude; gravity; guard the tit; gurgitate; had to take; kinds of tape; majesty; marmalade."

Interesting stuff.

[annode]

Thanks for that stonestreet.
Pulled up a portion of that essay. Read some related to this subject. I`m not unfamiliar with alterations in cognition in pathology...but that`s off topic.

The 'alternate' word phenomena reminded me of the MP3 perception I spoke about above where it takes many looped listens to get the effect. Cool stuff.

For your entertainment..."It`s Gonna Rain"

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