Are copyrights necessary for hobbyists and artists like us putting up original content?
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- KVRian
- 1356 posts since 26 Sep, 2002 from Montreal, CANADA
If I make a really really cool song and put it on youtube can anyone steal my music and make money off of it? Do I still need to send myself a copy of my single and keep in unsealed to present in court? It's funny to ask but I am not really sure in this day and age.
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- KVRist
- 78 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from New York City
In the U.S., there is no requirement to register a song with the U.S. Copyright Office to acquire copyright in the work. Copyright in a work of authorship is automatic when the work is "fixed in a tangible medium of expression." In other words, as soon as you save to disc or record to a CD, you own a copyright.
The "send the CD to myself in a envelope" is called the "poor man's copyright" and has no legal significance except perhaps it will prove the date you sent yourself a package. A copyright registration is prima facie evidence of ownership of the work and is a prerequisite for suing in Federal Court for copyright infringement.
But remember, owning a copyright won't prevent someone from stealing it, it just gives you the power to sue them for infringement.
The "send the CD to myself in a envelope" is called the "poor man's copyright" and has no legal significance except perhaps it will prove the date you sent yourself a package. A copyright registration is prima facie evidence of ownership of the work and is a prerequisite for suing in Federal Court for copyright infringement.
But remember, owning a copyright won't prevent someone from stealing it, it just gives you the power to sue them for infringement.
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- KVRAF
- 2398 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa
+1AdInfinitum wrote:In the U.S., there is no requirement to register a song with the U.S. Copyright Office to acquire copyright in the work. Copyright in a work of authorship is automatic when the work is "fixed in a tangible medium of expression." In other words, as soon as you save to disc or record to a CD, you own a copyright.
The "send the CD to myself in a envelope" is called the "poor man's copyright" and has no legal significance except perhaps it will prove the date you sent yourself a package. A copyright registration is prima facie evidence of ownership of the work and is a prerequisite for suing in Federal Court for copyright infringement.
But remember, owning a copyright won't prevent someone from stealing it, it just gives you the power to sue them for infringement.
If you want to deter any would-be thieves, you can always note the copyright in the .MP3 or .WAV file (and anywhere you post your music). This doesn't make it any "more copyrighted", but it will show up in many media players, and notify anyone who may have thought your work was otherwise "free to copy".
Steve
Here's some of my stuff: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife. If you hear something you like, I'm looking for collaborators.
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- KVRAF
- 7540 posts since 7 Aug, 2003 from San Francisco Bay Area
You don't need to register your copyright... Until you do. And then you'll wish you had done it earlier.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.
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- KVRAF
- 5440 posts since 4 Aug, 2006 from Helsinki
And of course - depending on the region - registering your copyright makes it possible you will been paid the copyright payments. E.g. if the radio or tv station (today also e.g. the Youtube) plays your song, you get compensation. The copyright organization collets the fees, takes care of controlling the use of your copyright and pays the compensation to you. But to get this service, you must make your copyright announcement, and to do that, you must be member of some copyright organization. The membership fee vary. This works also internationally, countries have agreements with each other. H.
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- KVRist
- 374 posts since 13 Jul, 2003 from Berlin
This.deastman wrote:You don't need to register your copyright... Until you do. And then you'll wish you had done it earlier.
Also I'd like to add that an individual "stealing" your song is in fact a problem, but it's a rather needle in a haystack problem.
I see the bigger issue with aggregate service that make use of all kinds of works, bundle them up, offer them for free and then sell advertisement around it.
Which, if you think about it is exactly what YouTube does. So there.
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- KVRAF
- 7001 posts since 20 Mar, 2012 from Babbleon
I have videos at YouTube. I remember getting an email from YouTube asking me to be a YouTube partner. I declined their request. Or rather, I did not respond to YouTube's request. YouTube has not attached any advertisement to any of my videos. So, I am not completely sure what you meant by your statement. Is there complicated not-so-obvious exploitation happening without my consent? I want to be educated properly. Please explain some more.wonshu wrote:
I see the bigger issue with aggregate service that make use of all kinds of works, bundle them up, offer them for free and then sell advertisement around it.
Which, if you think about it is exactly what YouTube does. So there.
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- KVRist
- 374 posts since 13 Jul, 2003 from Berlin
Somebody else could take your stuff, claim it and put advertisement around it. And not even just on YouTube but on the plethora of other platforms.harryupbabble wrote:I have videos at YouTube. I remember getting an email from YouTube asking me to be a YouTube partner. I declined their request. Or rather, I did not respond to YouTube's request. YouTube has not attached any advertisement to any of my videos. So, I am not completely sure what you meant by your statement. Is there complicated not-so-obvious exploitation happening without my consent? I want to be educated properly. Please explain some more.
And all of a sudden you'd be getting a letter from YouTube telling you that their content ID system has recognized your music and you are using it without permission. It's a real brain fart and completely backwards.
But that's where we're at legally at the moment. And the tech companies are doing everything in their power to keep legislation so that they don't have to be responsible for what's happening on their platforms.
Best
Hans
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- KVRAF
- 7413 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK
That's a lot like taking lots of forum posts, bundling them up into "threads" by "subject" and then selling banner advertising around that content, right..?wonshu wrote:I see the bigger issue with aggregate service that make use of all kinds of works, bundle them up, offer them for free and then sell advertisement around it.
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- KVRAF
- 7001 posts since 20 Mar, 2012 from Babbleon
Thank you for the answers. Further questions, if you don't mind.wonshu wrote:
Somebody else could take your stuff, claim it and put advertisement around it. And not even just on YouTube but on the plethora of other platforms.
And all of a sudden you'd be getting a letter from YouTube telling you that their content ID system has recognized your music and you are using it without permission. It's a real brain fart and completely backwards.
But that's where we're at legally at the moment. And the tech companies are doing everything in their power to keep legislation so that they don't have to be responsible for what's happening on their platforms.
Best
Hans
If somebody else takes my stuff and claims it as their own then wouldn't it be easy for me to say that my stuff is the original because I published it first? YouTube includes a "published on this day" statement on all videos.
On the other hand, I guess I would not know if people are actually copying my videos and uploading it as their own unless I really really look. But does YouTube not inform us if duplicates of our videos were made by others? Are there 3rd-party softwares to scan all of YouTube to detect duplicates of one's videos and its content? Also, as I understand it, isn't YouTube's ID system exactly that software? And that the violation notices would be sent to the account of the ones that stole one's videos and content? And isn't Google (the owner of YouTube) not immune to the the justice systems? I vaguely remember news about Google being forced by European courts to have internet users have the "rights to be forgotten".
If my questions and understandings are naive then I am just trying to be less naive. Again, thanks.
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- KVRist
- 374 posts since 13 Jul, 2003 from Berlin
If you use and claim YouTubes ContentID for your music and videos, then sure. If you don't then someone else can. Because YouTube AFAIK doesn't proactively assign ContentID to just anything. They assign if someone becomes a "partner", as you have been offered.
Until you have done that, anybody can claim that music as their own. And yes, of course you could and should scour YouTube for people who've used your music in their videos. It's just, how can I put this, a bit futile, really, as I'm sure you understand.
And what about the many, many, many platforms that don't even have a ContentID system. It's just do as you wish there and there's no way an individual can keep up with monitoring those.
Legally, as it is today thanks to the DMCA and it's various international equivalents, hosting providers (which YouTube and many other services are unfortunately still considered) can not be held liable for what their users upload. I know, you will come at me with the MEGA case and what might be the difference to YouTube. Well, I don't know, I'm not the judge who made those rulings and I may or may not agree with those rulings. I'm not going to debate that because I'm out of my element there.
All I'm saying is: we're still in a legally pretty confusing internet age and unfortunately the biggest platform of all has decided to do business in a way that makes it easy for people to exploit other peoples work and claim it as their own and hard to claim your work. If you upload a video to YouTube, you click one message declaring that you own all the rights. If you claim the rights on a video you get a threatening text before continuing informing you of all the consequences and damages you may be held accountable for in case you were wrong. As I said, it's backwards.
Best, Hans!
Until you have done that, anybody can claim that music as their own. And yes, of course you could and should scour YouTube for people who've used your music in their videos. It's just, how can I put this, a bit futile, really, as I'm sure you understand.
And what about the many, many, many platforms that don't even have a ContentID system. It's just do as you wish there and there's no way an individual can keep up with monitoring those.
Legally, as it is today thanks to the DMCA and it's various international equivalents, hosting providers (which YouTube and many other services are unfortunately still considered) can not be held liable for what their users upload. I know, you will come at me with the MEGA case and what might be the difference to YouTube. Well, I don't know, I'm not the judge who made those rulings and I may or may not agree with those rulings. I'm not going to debate that because I'm out of my element there.
All I'm saying is: we're still in a legally pretty confusing internet age and unfortunately the biggest platform of all has decided to do business in a way that makes it easy for people to exploit other peoples work and claim it as their own and hard to claim your work. If you upload a video to YouTube, you click one message declaring that you own all the rights. If you claim the rights on a video you get a threatening text before continuing informing you of all the consequences and damages you may be held accountable for in case you were wrong. As I said, it's backwards.
Best, Hans!
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- KVRAF
- 16136 posts since 13 Nov, 2012
AdInfinitum wrote:In the U.S., there is no requirement to register a song with the U.S. Copyright Office to acquire copyright in the work. Copyright in a work of authorship is automatic when the work is "fixed in a tangible medium of expression." In other words, as soon as you save to disc or record to a CD, you own a copyright.
The "send the CD to myself in a envelope" is called the "poor man's copyright" and has no legal significance except perhaps it will prove the date you sent yourself a package. A copyright registration is prima facie evidence of ownership of the work and is a prerequisite for suing in Federal Court for copyright infringement.
But remember, owning a copyright won't prevent someone from stealing it, it just gives you the power to sue them for infringement.
Well said!
For the OP, its best to share your music as you wish.
Be wise, take precaution but no need to hide it away.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Well, that does seem contradictory. What also seems contradictory is that you're saying that it's too easy to claim rights and that it's too hard. The declaration of ownership upon uploading means in the case of a dispute that the original uploader is first in line as it were and I would expect to prevail.wonshu wrote: If you upload a video to YouTube, you click one message declaring that you own all the rights. If you claim the rights on a video you get a threatening text before continuing informing you of all the consequences and damages you may be held accountable for in case you were wrong. As I said, it's backwards.
My only experience with claims is Warner's has two thrice made a claim on one particular video and released it due to my assertion of Fair Use (There is no Warner's video per se that I flat stole say off of Youtube.). Another entity claimed ownership, maybe of same, maybe of other clips in the same video, I can't know. They never replied to my dispute so 3 wks and that's lifted. I could not confirm they owned anything in this world, frankly or that they were anything real.
