Experiment:Hearing musical ideas through white noise.

[annode]

I have to get my ass in gear and do this!!!

Well, tonight I mixed FM radio music with white or pink noise.
Unfortunately it didn`t mimic the car radio w/wind relationship.
It`s not going to be simple I see. The variations in sound from being modulated by varying air pressure and wind noise might get a little complicated.

No matter, I have a good arsenal of plugins...i`ll figure something out.
Please try things yourselves and share any experience, failure or success.
I know the brain will do it`s thing when it gets the right stimulus.

[Sparky77]

Nature is full of white noise...

Listen to the rain or the ocean, best music EVER.

[deastman]

Its gonna rain
Its going
Its all right
Its Darlene
Its all late
Its dolling

[Doug1978]

...

I know I can imagine musical sound(rhythm and melody)when driving with the radio on and the windows full open with the radio on any station with the volume so low it was just about audible with the wind blowing in.
In other words, I could here random sounds from the radio but not recognize the song, even if I knew it. My brain starts creating music.
What I want to do is do that same thing using radio and white noise through a mixer into headphones. I suspect the brain will do it`s thing and create music by filling in the gaps from the random sounds it hears from the radio and in turn, try to find a way to 'record' those 'ideas' into the DAW seqr.

...

Interesting idea Annode.
And I imagine you will be able to replicate this at some point (I note your attempt on page 3 today).

I take the point that this phenomenon doesn't just happen whilst you're in the car, but given that the car is where some of your most vivid memories happened, then in terms of the experiment:

a) do you have (at least) three audio sources rather than two coming to you - wind, low-volume radio, and car running noises - when this happens?

b) does the wind (coming through both windows, and rear windows?) provide a 360 degree surrounding, or a more limited degree of audio reception would you estimate?

c) How many speakers for the car radio player, and where are they placed?

d) whilst the wind 'white noise' is coming through the windows, is there another source of air noise already within the car which has been filtered?


I might be wrong and over-thinking this, but it could be difficult to replicate the phenomenon because not only do you have to recreate a mix (initially on stereo headphones / speakers?) to balance the levels of audio sources against each other, but you also have to take into account the location of the different sources within the 360 degree audio field, and you have to factor in how your mind is attentively listening (or not) to a particular sound source at the expense of reducing all other sources' input.



ps, it would be interesting for researchers to brain image scan a participant to see what neural processes fire up when such an experiment is conducted. That could provide additional information about how, and where in the brain, we perceive the phenomenon as well as receive the raw sensory data.


pps, being a fellow tinnitus sufferer, although only at a mild level of around frequency 9Khz in my right ear, I find that my perception of the condition plays a huge part in suffering worse with it. If I can switch my mind off from attending to the hissing (usually when I have a cold), then it nearly always decreases significantly.
However, this might not work well with more severe cases, or with lower frequency tinnitus?

[annode]

Thanks for helping out Doug.
All your points have to be taking into account for sure.
Realistically, i`ll try those first which are easiest to setup.
Noise on top of music had less interaction then I was hoping for.
Injecting noise was just a 'static' unchanging mask. It didn`t change much really.When the music was audible enough to perceive it, it was also enough to hear the actual musical structure. It didn`t break up the structure as I was hoping. I was making EQ and level adjustments between the two sources on the fly, but they just were not interactive.
Wind in a moving car changes all the time. Noise and air pressure around your ears change all the time and modulate the sound coming into your ears. Trying to reproduce that somehow is my next task.

Any ideas? I can use all the help I can get.

[Michael L]

One strategy is a subtle filter, because our brains filter out unimportant sounds to find meaningful patterns. Thus, try (a) using spectral filters set to different frequencies or (b) random LFOs to resonate frequencies, and then adjust the wet/dry mix until it's just barely noticeable. I did a quick proof-of-concept using (a) SoundHack, and (b) CamelSpace Random Triangle filters on a 'babbling brook' and got promising results.
Edit: Tritik's new 35EUR Moodal resonator plugin works well and is fun.

[annode]

One strategy is a subtle filter, because our brains filter out unimportant sounds to find meaningful patterns. Thus, try (a) using spectral filters set to different frequencies or (b) random LFOs to resonate frequencies, and then adjust the wet/dry mix until it's just barely noticeable. I did a quick proof-of-concept using (a) SoundHack, and (b) CamelSpace Random Triangle filters on a 'babbling brook' and got promising results.
Edit: Tritik's new 35EUR Moodal resonator plugin works well and is fun.

Great suggestions Michael! Going to experiment with them today.
Will come back with results.

[Michael L]

Also, Melda's new 29EUR MTransformer is promising with a modulated preset like "Future Transceiver"....

[annode]

Had a session with Camel Space and another filter type modulation VST...forget the name.
I haven`t gotten an effective scheme yet but I don`t feel i`m wasting my time. Next session will include side chaining using the audible music as the keying source, as well as a try with an alternate source.

Trying to isolate a direction to go in with these modulating filters.
I think it needs more randomness. But can`t yet put my finger on it.
I know this is eventually going to work.

[Doug1978]

^^ sounds good annode. I'll be very interested to read about and listen to your results when you're happy with them.
Cheers.

[annode]

^^ sounds good annode. I'll be very interested to read about and listen to your results when you're happy with them.
Cheers.

Hi Doug. Happy to have you on board.
Took some time to set up a side-chain template in my old non-side-chain DAW, (Nuendo2) but I managed it.

I`m thinking of using the masking sound as the keying source. Then sending it to the filter VST as it`s modulation info. This I hope will act like the varying levels of noise which mask(filter) the music, as well as modulate the cutoff parameter of a low-pass filter. Like wind from the open windows while driving...or the sound of a river rapid.

Haven`t figured out the details yet, but it will come.

[nineofkings]

Perhaps it could be as simple as downloading some "rushing wind" sounds intended for noise machine purposes and playing that over a radio stream.

Pretty excited to try this out myself, as I've had that experience. Often I think I hear some interesting musical turn and then turn the music up to discover I was hearing harmonics and misinterpreting the key.

[annode]

Perhaps it could be as simple as downloading some "rushing wind" sounds intended for noise machine purposes and playing that over a radio stream.

Pretty excited to try this out myself, as I've had that experience. Often I think I hear some interesting musical turn and then turn the music up to discover I was hearing harmonics and misinterpreting the key.

Yeah...seems it`s not an isolated occurrence. Many ppl have noticed it !
I`m hoping to use it like a tool to get ideas when we hit a wall.

Earlier in this thread I came to discover just mixing the noise over the music doesn`t do it. It`s more complex then that.

[annode]

Worked on setting up some stuff tonight.
Made a very crude trial sample.
- Odd African rhythm track is keying a gating compressor inserted after a distorted live radio signal. A third track is running an ocean surf sample.
Bring your volume level down before starting this;
https://soundcloud.com/annode-1/creation-wave1
The music is being buried and remnants of melody are perceivable.
That`s good so far!
The keying source is crude and just a static rhythm. The key signal will need to get more intelligent. Any case, it`s a start.

[annode]

I`m back for an update;
- I haven`t gotten much done recently, but like to tell what I have done.
Took the car out for a highway test drive. Opened the windows and turned on the radio to a just audible volume. As expected I got the effect. This time though I focused on the noise. I noticed what seemed to be the influencing noise as the tires against the road surface and the low freq rubble they caused withing the car interior.

This rubble was a sorta resonance of the car and interior which intermittently mask out musical notes from the radio. The resonance was relatively constant but also modulating. The wind was also a factor, but not as much as the resonance. Both together were important.

Want you all to know that unlike the very crude noisy audio example above, I don`t believe running an annoying, unbearable noise over music is the right direction. I want to find a way to modulate the music with the modulation effecting the music behind the scenes...inaudibly.
My next move towards this will be with a new host for me, 'Reaper'.
I`ve found that within Reaper, you can set up an audio track to modulate any effect`s parameters! This gives me a lot more control over the modulation source.
I`m learning my way around Reaper. It`s not like Cubase...at all...this will take some time. I will be able to still use Reaper as a modulation tool as I just mentioned above without much study though.

I`d love to record the car resonance as a mod. track...not sure I have what`s needed. I did get a few popping popcorn tracks though...who knows?