One Synth Challenge #80: MUX by MuTools (Voting Over, preliminary results in)

[wagtunes]

I've taken up enough of everybody's time with feedback already so I'm just going to work on the rest privately and post it when it's ready to go live. At that time, whatever is still wrong with it, well, whatever. I'm not going to get all bent out of shape over it.

Trust me, I'm not expecting anything amazing this month.

I think you are beating yourself way too much man - your posts now run the very real risk of the sympathy vote in the challenge. That won't help you though, it'll just hinder you.

You've made music all your life and will hopefully continue to do so for the remainder.
Honestly as long as you enjoy what you are doing try not to let other peoples opinion deter or derail you from what you obviously get a lot of pleasure from.
You still have your presets, webpage and other notches in your belt and hopefully your health

Hey look, I'm not looking for any sympathy. Nobody owes me anything. In fact, if I have to, I won't even submit this for the OSC. Nothing is worse than pity. I'd rather just bow out of the contest.

I am just frustrated. People imply that it's not talent that I lack but that I haven't been putting in the work.

What do you think I've been doing for 36 years?

You should see all the books I have on music composition and production. All the videos I've watched. All the feedback I've taken in and tried to build on.

I've had some of the biggest names in the music business critique my work and let me tell you, it wasn't a pretty picture. On the rare occasion that I did something musically "good" it wasn't commercial enough, or it wasn't radio ready enough.

You heard what e-bol said about my symphony. bizarre bordering on surreal.

Trust me, that's not what I was going for. I was hoping more along the lines of Mozart, Beethoven and Schubert.

So much for that.

It's like my head is one big jumbled mess and I can't discipline it enough to come out with something that the average person can listen to and enjoy.

I can count the number of people who have actually enjoyed my music in the 36 years I've been doing this on one hand. Most have gone as far as to tell me not to quit my day job.

I honestly don't know what it is I'm missing but it isn't hard work, that's for sure. I'm sure I've put more hours into my music than 90% of the people at this forum.

But when you don't have that gift for arrangement, production and all the little nuances that go into creating these tracks month after month, all the work in the world isn't going to change that. I listen to stuff by Jasinksi and Z.Prime and I just shake my head. I hear what goes into their tracks. It's like a painting where all the colors just fit right. My painting is more like blotches all over the canvas. I don't have the talent to micromanage each track like these people do.

Just the right setting for the EQ,
Just the right panning.
Just the right compression.
Just the right automation for whatever it is they're trying to do.

And none of that, including a lot more, has anything to even do with the composition itself, which, if you listen to it, is "commercial" by today's standards.

I have never been able to write commercially no matter how hard I've tried. And if you're going to ask why I would want to, two reasons.

1) So lots of people will actually like what I do.

2) So I can actually make some money doing this.

Anybody can write in a vacuum just for themselves and enjoy doing it, which I have done my whole life. But after a while, you'd really like other people to say to you, "Hey man, that was really good" and mean it, not because they're my family or friends.

Finally, and I know many here won't agree with this, some people only have so much talent. They will only ever be so good no matter how much training or hard work they put in.

Not everybody is Mozart.

And I'm far from it.

[bibz1st]

Wagtunes, what I heard of that symphony is effing fantastic, no talent my arse

[z.prime]

Wagtunes, what I heard of that symphony is effing fantastic, no talent my arse

Agreed! You definitely have *ability*, or if you prefer, talent, at some sorts of composition. Sure, maybe pop music or EDM or whatever else isn't your thing. My only point was, no matter which way you slice it, I think it can be achieved. The issue to me isn't lack of 'talent' but rather... if you *want* to do something like that, you need to put in time to learn it: learn the melody timings that are popular, that people like; learn the chord progressions... and then after really having a grasp on the "why", make it all your own. If you're awesome at classical/orchestral, that definitely just isn't going to translate to pop. But you can analyze and figure out why.

[wagtunes]

For the hell of it, I read all the comments and noted all the suggestions and made a ton of additions and changes and this is what I have so far with 8 days to go.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... -the-mux-2

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

you heard what e-bol said about my symphony. bizarre bordering on surreal.

no no no no NO !!

while i found the symphony a little too, erm, 'twee' in places, i thought it was great. what i found bizarre, and surreal, is that it is so much more cohesive than other stuff i have heard by you, that it seems like it's by someone else

as i said, you have some strengths that show themselves in a more traditional way of composing, and maybe playing more to that workflow would help you realise your visions better with other styles. not aying to stop 'jamming out', but maybe you are better getting your notation paper out when it comes time to compose

seriously, there was nothing but compliments for you, despite how it might have come across

[bibz1st]

If you could just get that timing a bit tighter.....haha
No Im kidding, it sounds great now especially with the additions.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

For the hell of it, I read all the comments and noted all the suggestions and made a ton of additions and changes and this is what I have so far with 8 days to go.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... -the-mux-2

for the record, i had not heard any other versions of this...just this. now that i have checked the other version, i can see how much better this is

you made a comment about not being able to tell that it was all over the place, but can you now ?? it makes such a huge difference having that melody in time

[wagtunes]

For the hell of it, I read all the comments and noted all the suggestions and made a ton of additions and changes and this is what I have so far with 8 days to go.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... -the-mux-2

for the record, i had not heard any other versions of this...just this. now that i have checked the other version, i can see how much better this is

you made a comment about not being able to tell that it was all over the place, but can you now ?? it makes such a huge difference having that melody in time

Yes, I can hear the difference. Point is, and the point I'm trying to make about my ability, is that I had to have somebody point the problem out to me, After 36 years of writing, this was something I should have heard for myself but I didn't.

I guess you could say I'm that kid in class who really doesn't have the ability to do things entirely on his own but point out his mistakes and show him what needs to be changed and he can do it. Kind of like a computer. I can follow directions.

That is not talent. That's just taking your to-do checklist and crossing off each item.

I can train a monkey to do that.

[MTLE]

Didn't expect this will happen anytime. Wag, you're on a really good way.
From composing I think your done. Just concentrate on the mix now. Don't change to much, only some minor changes are really necessary (check some levels and maybe EQs). Thats it.

Keep this level in the next rounds and improve a bit in each.

[wagtunes]

Didn't expect this will happen anytime. Wag, you're on a really good way.
From composing I think your done. Just concentrate on the mix now. Don't change to much, only some minor changes are really necessary (check some levels and maybe EQs). Thats it.

Keep this level in the next rounds and improve a bit in each.

Ah, the mix. Levels. This is where I am at such a horrible disadvantage. My ears are shot. I wouldn't know when this was a good mix if it picked itself up off the floor and kicked me in the ass. I'd only be taking guesses and throwing darts in the dark.

[MTLE]

Didn't expect this will happen anytime. Wag, you're on a really good way.
From composing I think your done. Just concentrate on the mix now. Don't change to much, only some minor changes are really necessary (check some levels and maybe EQs). Thats it.

Keep this level in the next rounds and improve a bit in each.

Ah, the mix. Levels. This is where I am at such a horrible disadvantage. My ears are shot. I wouldn't know when this was a good mix if it picked itself up off the floor and kicked me in the ass. I'd only be taking guesses and throwing darts in the dark.

I'll try to leave some comments on SC and hope it helps.
Edit: done

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

I'm that kid in class who really doesn't have the ability to do things entirely on his own but point out his mistakes and show him what needs to be changed and he can do it. Kind of like a computer. I can follow directions.

That is not talent. That's just taking your to-do checklist and crossing off each item.

I can train a monkey to do that.

ditched as much of the whining as i could to bring focus to something worth looking at

what makes you think everyone else is so self-reliant that we don't need things pointed out, to be corrected, learned from etc ?? this '36 years' bullshit is just serving to close you off to the fact that we needn't ever be past learning. you think you should know it all already, and so you kinda close yourself to the new possibilities

every single issue you have here can be learned, or improved, if you are willing. but you need to ditch the ego, and put on the training wheels. your daw has tools to make up for your timing shortcomings, while you train yourself (like a monkey) to be a bit more rhythmically inclined

have you ever considered drum/percussion lessons ??

[wagtunes]

I'm that kid in class who really doesn't have the ability to do things entirely on his own but point out his mistakes and show him what needs to be changed and he can do it. Kind of like a computer. I can follow directions.

That is not talent. That's just taking your to-do checklist and crossing off each item.

I can train a monkey to do that.

ditched as much of the whining as i could to bring focus to something worth looking at

what makes you think everyone else is so self-reliant that we don't need things pointed out, to be corrected, learned from etc ?? this '36 years' bullshit is just serving to close you off to the fact that we needn't ever be past learning. you think you should know it all already, and so you kinda close yourself to the new possibilities

every single issue you have here can be learned, or improved, if you are willing. but you need to ditch the ego, and put on the training wheels. your daw has tools to make up for your timing shortcomings, while you train yourself (like a monkey) to be a bit more rhythmically inclined

have you ever considered drum/percussion lessons ??

Yeah, done that. Even tried to play drums in a rock band because my friend was desperate for a drummer. My sense of rhythm was so bad he had to throw me off. My timing is atrocious. And yes, I use a metronome. It doesn't help. I just can't keep a steady beat no matter how hard I try. I could never learn to do a double stroke roll no matter how much I practiced.

Why is it so hard to believe that some people are just not going to be good at certain things? Can you do everything amazingly? Have you mastered everything you've ever learned in your life? Maybe you have. There are some very talented people out there. My mother, God rest her soul, was a concert pianist AND an opera singer. She could have had an amazing career if she wasn't bi-polar. Her life was such a terrible shame because of emotional problems.

Me? I'm a freaking robot. I could be at the very top of whatever I wanted to do if I had the ability. And no, it can't be learned. Not to that extent. Otherwise, everybody who ever went to Julliard would be Yo-Yo Ma. They're not.

And I'm not even close.

I've taken guitar, piano and drum lessons. I suck at all three. My left hand, I could never develop on the piano. I could never play fast leads on the guitar no matter how hard I tried. And drums. Forget playing like Carl Palmer. I can't even keep a steady beat.

At least I can acknowledge my shortcomings. Some people think they are God's gift to the arts and they're not even close.

But I do admire their chutzpah.

[ontrackp]

Wag -- re: mixing, while having good ears and accurate monitors are important, using your meters is also really important and can help make your sound more polished. Before everyone flips out, I'm not saying you can make a good mix if you're deaf and only watch the meters, but along with listening, you have to watch the relative levels of your tracks, solo your tracks and use dynamic compression and EQ appropriately, and keep an eye on a frequency analyzer looking at your full mix, you will clearly see if something is jumping out, or if an important part is not registering where it should. Trust me, at 59 yrs old my hearing is not what it used to be but I try to be careful and compensate where I can and I think my mixes are ok.

[bjporter]

Wag -- re: mixing, while having good ears and accurate monitors are important, using your meters is also really important and can help make your sound more polished. Before everyone flips out, I'm not saying you can make a good mix if you're deaf and only watch the meters, but along with listening, you have to watch the relative levels of your tracks, solo your tracks and use dynamic compression and EQ appropriately, and keep an eye on a frequency analyzer looking at your full mix, you will clearly see if something is jumping out, or if an important part is not registering where it should. Trust me, at 59 yrs old my hearing is not what it used to be but I try to be careful and compensate where I can and I think my mixes are ok.

I literally am a spectral and amplitude analyzer hugger It's ok to mix visually - in fact it helps you learn a LOT about sounds.