Free FM Synthesizer Dexed (VST Windows and Mac)

[Etienne1973]

Hi

Please add the option to switch to velocity range 0-100 that original DX7MkI patches can be played and sound correct.

Best regards
Etienne

[electro]

Hi

Please add the option to switch to velocity range 0-100 that original DX7MkI patches can be played and sound correct.

Best regards
Etienne

That only applies if using DX7 keyboard not when using the MIDI In port on DX7 or TX7 so its better left to the VST host.

Also is it a linearly scaled 0 - 100 keyboard velocity range or just a normal keyboard 0 - 127 response capped at 100?

[electro]

Is MIDI CC scheduled for the next release?

[Teksonik]

That only applies if using DX7 keyboard not when using the MIDI In port on DX7 or TX7 so its better left to the VST host.

To be a true emulation there should be a "DX-7 Version 1 velocity" setting. It shouldn't be left up to the host since many people will want to play Dexed from their controller keyboards. When playing my first gen DX7 back in the day from another midi keyboard several of the original patches would be "overdriven" due to the fact that the controller was capable of sending the full 127 top velocity. If you really want to hear patches created for the first gen DX as they were intended then you have to cap velocity at 100. That task is best handled by Dexed itself. Both FM7 and FM 8 have this feature:



I have FM 8 set to the full range since I don't use it play old DX patches..........

[electro]

You're wrong because DX7 can respond simultaneously to its internal Keyboard and external MIDI device input which is never filtered. The sound engine and input source of the DX7 are two independent entities.

[Etienne1973]

... its better left to the VST host

... the envelopes are based on the DX7II that are using the standard midi velocity range (0-127)
Source: http://asb2m10.github.io/dexed/

This can't be changed in the host.

[Teksonik]

You're wrong because DX7 can respond simultaneously to its internal Keyboard and external MIDI device input which is never filtered. The sound engine and input source of the DX7 are two independent entities.

No, I'm not wrong. If you'll read my post again you'll see that I said that the DX7 can be controlled from it's Midi port but for the first gen if you send it velocities over 100 then many of the older patches will not sound as intended. It's something I dealt with back in the 1980's when controlling the DX from other keyboards. It was also an issue if I wanted to use the DX as a controller since it capped at 100. So patches on other synths would not sound as they were intended.

Anyway there is a reason why N.I. put the velocity switch on both FM7 and FM8. The same reason there should be such a switch on Dexed....if you want it to be a dead accurate emulation. Simple as that.......

An obvious example is SYNPK20.7 a first gen factory patch that really shows the issue when sent velocities over 100............

[electro]

No you want a filter on the MIDI track that connects your MIDI keyboard controller and Dexed. If you place the velocity filter inside Dexed, it will affect all MIDI sources, not just your dedicated keyboard controller.

[Teksonik]

No you want a filter on the MIDI track that connects your MIDI keyboard controller and Dexed. If you place the velocity filter inside Dexed, it will affect all MIDI sources, not just your dedicated keyboard controller.

No, if you want to play sounds as they were intended then you need the switch. Modulation is another matter all together.

Like I've said N.I. put that switch in for a reason.

Here's the SYNPK20.7 patch. The first 8 notes are at the original 100 velocity limit...the next 8 at the full 127

SYNPK20.7

The difference in character is much more obvious when you're actually playing the patch.........

[nix808]

It's perfectly possible to use a filter just on velocity,
without capping anything else.

If you're stuck I can make a 32-bit one.

[electro]

I have 2 theories on how to scale a normal MIDI keyboard to emulate the flawed MIDI output velocity curve of the DX7 keyboard. Which theory do you think is more accurate?

Theory A: Velocity > 99 = 100

Theory B: Velocity = X * .79

[Teksonik]

It's perfectly possible to use a filter just on velocity,
without capping anything else.

If you're stuck I can make a 32-bit one.

The point is the plugin should handle this. You don't want to have to load a midi filter every time you load up Dexed. If it wants to be an emulation of the DX7....and it's already put a lot of effort in doing so, check the engine options....then it needs to have the same switch that FM7/8 have. In fact the best solution would be to allow a per patch switch if technically possible to allow older patches to be played accurately and allow later generation patches to have the full range. Some of the signature sounds of the DX were first gen patches so allowing them to play as intended is very important to an accurate DX emulation.

A third party midi filter is a workaround not a solution...........

[Chris-S]

I have 2 theories on how to scale a normal MIDI keyboard to emulate the flawed MIDI output velocity curve of the DX7 keyboard.

There is no "normal" MIDI keyboard. Each has a special velocity curve.
Many MIDI keyboards have adjustable curves.

[electro]

DX7 can respond to Keyboard MIDI and MIDI IN Jack MIDI simultaneously. Only Keyboard MIDI is supposed to be capped at 100.

[Teksonik]

DX7 can respond to Keyboard MIDI and MIDI IN Jack MIDI simultaneously. Only Keyboard MIDI is supposed to be capped at 100.

You're just not getting it are you ? I've given you explanations and examples. The Patches don't care whether the midi data comes from the DX keyboard or an external device. If you send a velocity over 100 to the midi in port the original patches will not sound correct.

The original DX7 patches were programmed with the velocity limit of 100 of the DX keyboard so they could be played and sound as intended from the built in keyboard. That's why when I controlled the DX from my ESQ-1 many of the original patches were over driven...as my audio example above explains. It's not just about volume it's about a difference in character as well.

Again for the tenth time...if you want those original patches to sound as they were intended you need to limit velocity to 100. That task is best accomplished by the plugin itself as Native Instruments has demonstrated.

I don't know how much more clear I can make it........