So is this another format ontop of the existing plugin formats?
Will developers support it, I've seen a couple of mentions (u-he) comes to mind, what further developments will this bring. Bank/Patch browsing, simplier control/parameter integration. Anything more?
Will NI introduce multi-output audio support (ie Omnisphere, PPG etc).
NI Maschine 2.4 Update inc NKS format
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- KVRAF
- 3303 posts since 27 Mar, 2010 from UK
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- KVRAF
- 1991 posts since 12 Mar, 2004
It wont bring anything and after a couple of years NI will drop it in another "We are still learning" moment, NI are on another level when ot comes to getting people to pay money for nothing and ignoring their own great products
Duh
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- KVRAF
- 37389 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
No it seems like it's more just a set of extensions for VST 2 that enable closer integration into Komplete Kontrol and Maschine. I'm not seeing another set of plugin types in my plugins folder.MFXxx wrote:So is this another format ontop of the existing plugin formats?
Will developers support it, I've seen a couple of mentions (u-he) comes to mind, what further developments will this bring. Bank/Patch browsing, simplier control/parameter integration. Anything more?
Will NI introduce multi-output audio support (ie Omnisphere, PPG etc).
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 3303 posts since 27 Mar, 2010 from UK
Im wondering along the same lines, thinks it's going to do with parameter, controller, plugin and preset assignments within the vsts themselves so likely to be down to the dev's if they are going to jump on board and integrate the relevant coding into their own plugins.aMUSEd wrote:No it seems like it's more just a set of extensions for VST 2 that enable closer integration into Komplete Kontrol and Maschine. I'm not seeing another set of plugin types in my plugins folder.MFXxx wrote:So is this another format ontop of the existing plugin formats?
Will developers support it, I've seen a couple of mentions (u-he) comes to mind, what further developments will this bring. Bank/Patch browsing, simplier control/parameter integration. Anything more?
Will NI introduce multi-output audio support (ie Omnisphere, PPG etc).
Interesting possibilities.
In regards to the plugin folders, I do wish it would allow renaming and organising of the folders and hierarchy, but it's an improvement for sure.
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- KVRAF
- 37389 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
We've been taking it apart on the NI forum - seems to be a number of components:
1) Parameter mapping to the hardware - this is basically a question of the developer creating a mapping for their plugin, there are 2 ways of going about this. Some plugins, Alchemy for example, have been setup with well thought out params already 'exposed' to hosts - they are well organised and well named so pretty much no additional customization is needed, and they are essentially automapped by KK. The rest need the developer team to create custom mappings in KK or Maschine, this of course is also something us users can do if we don't like the existing setup (or for non NKS plugins)
2) It appears that all plugins can make use of KK's chord, scales and ARP features without needing to be NKS plugins. It also appears to be the case that they can also use the lightguide for things like scales and chords guides as these are handled by KK not the plugin. However for things like keymapping, which require the plugin to report to KK what the lightguide needs to do it does appear that the plugin needs to be NKS enabled (whatever that means)
3) About 90% of what a NKS plugin can do can be replicated by users creating mapping templates themselves, then saving out patches using those templates. It is also possible to create custom icons for the browser and add entries into KK's database using a text editor telling it where to place those plugins in the sidebar. All we can't do is have them appear in the factory tab, unsupported plugin templates go in the user tab.
https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... 959/page-5
1) Parameter mapping to the hardware - this is basically a question of the developer creating a mapping for their plugin, there are 2 ways of going about this. Some plugins, Alchemy for example, have been setup with well thought out params already 'exposed' to hosts - they are well organised and well named so pretty much no additional customization is needed, and they are essentially automapped by KK. The rest need the developer team to create custom mappings in KK or Maschine, this of course is also something us users can do if we don't like the existing setup (or for non NKS plugins)
2) It appears that all plugins can make use of KK's chord, scales and ARP features without needing to be NKS plugins. It also appears to be the case that they can also use the lightguide for things like scales and chords guides as these are handled by KK not the plugin. However for things like keymapping, which require the plugin to report to KK what the lightguide needs to do it does appear that the plugin needs to be NKS enabled (whatever that means)
3) About 90% of what a NKS plugin can do can be replicated by users creating mapping templates themselves, then saving out patches using those templates. It is also possible to create custom icons for the browser and add entries into KK's database using a text editor telling it where to place those plugins in the sidebar. All we can't do is have them appear in the factory tab, unsupported plugin templates go in the user tab.
https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... 959/page-5
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- KVRAF
- 2990 posts since 13 Apr, 2008 from Charleston, SC
Actually it opens up easier control access from the hardware integrated with the soft plugs. Over the years some of us have spent hours mapping our software to work with hardware controllers when we could have been making music. Several hardware manufacturers made it easy by creating templates, but there was never a standard (even with Nectar I am always eagerly anticipating new software being mapped). But NI wants to create a standard. Even other hardware manufacturers could get involved and follow suite.
But this remains to be seen if it is implemented across the board. It would be nice.
But this remains to be seen if it is implemented across the board. It would be nice.
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- KVRAF
- 1991 posts since 12 Mar, 2004
Actually, as can be seen not only in this thread but anywhere else discussong Kontrol, what is happening....users making templates hahaha
Trust me, if NI can't make a constant cash cow/store out of this, it goes the way of Kore, Maschine gets zero updates unless they are needed to make selling expansions easier/faster, Maschine is very powerful and could be a hell of a set up with the right updates, but even us users have to be realist about NIs direction right now.
Trust me, if NI can't make a constant cash cow/store out of this, it goes the way of Kore, Maschine gets zero updates unless they are needed to make selling expansions easier/faster, Maschine is very powerful and could be a hell of a set up with the right updates, but even us users have to be realist about NIs direction right now.
Duh
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- KVRAF
- 1667 posts since 2 Apr, 2006 from Studio City, California
I am enjoying KK in multiple ways. The KK S88 keyboard is great. The other thing is that Kontakt instruments are mapped and work better than on Akai VIP. I use the Advance with VIP for all synths other than NI and Kontakt. These two software integration platforms,KK and VIP, will pay off in productivity.
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- KVRAF
- 2990 posts since 13 Apr, 2008 from Charleston, SC
It appears that they are attempting to do with VSTi's what Kontakt did for sample libraries. This is different yes, but if you could get devs to go to a single standard for hardware mapping (and of course NI keeping their hand in the pot) this would be good thing for us as end users.bungle wrote:Actually, as can be seen not only in this thread but anywhere else discussong Kontrol, what is happening....users making templates hahaha
Trust me, if NI can't make a constant cash cow/store out of this, it goes the way of Kore, Maschine gets zero updates unless they are needed to make selling expansions easier/faster, Maschine is very powerful and could be a hell of a set up with the right updates, but even us users have to be realist about NIs direction right now.
It would mean, as I mentioned, not having to take the time to map every new piece of hardware or software that comes out. An out of the box system is awesome. It is like the relationship between Ableton Live and Push, except now it it goes much further with many more systems, um should this be successful.
And I tend to agree with you, if this goes south (which it appears too many larger devs are on board for this to happen) then so will KK.
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- KVRAF
- 1991 posts since 12 Mar, 2004
Actually there are very few developers on board, and those that are are not even hinting at full support, and there is a reason for that.
This is NOT an open standard, this will never be fully supported by everybody and for single simple reason, NI, NI are being komplete idiots about it, if they indeed wanted this to be a "Standard" they would have opened it up so that other hosts could use it, other hardware developers could use it, they haven't, they wont, and as a consequence this is already a dead duck.
3rd party developers will not continually add extra work to their designs just so that NI can make extra money with their eco system.
Nothing at all about this is about user benefit, example, maschine....
"Oh cool, you can have expansions that are in their own section in the browser relevant to that expansion with their own imagery and so on" "Oh wait, so you created that ability but then dont allow users to do that with their own made content, everything is just bunched under Maschine"
A perfect example that non of this has even an inkling of thought for user usefullness, nothing but continual expansive selling, you can bet right now that NKS and its associated browser is NIs wet dream for an itunes style selling front end and at some point the developers who get on board will end up not only have extra code but also paying a commision, there is literally zero reason otherwise not to make this an open standard
Anybody considering this as the universal "one size fits all, everything ready mapped" standard, is fooling themselves, Akai have no access to use it on their hardware, so already there is a competing system, Novation have no access to it, competing system number 3 (they are the originators mind you), on and on and on and on infinitum because this and non of the other systems are "OPEN"
This will never work for any developer and only when it is part of a free and open universal standard that every hardware manufacturer can support will it be useful.
This is NOT an open standard, this will never be fully supported by everybody and for single simple reason, NI, NI are being komplete idiots about it, if they indeed wanted this to be a "Standard" they would have opened it up so that other hosts could use it, other hardware developers could use it, they haven't, they wont, and as a consequence this is already a dead duck.
3rd party developers will not continually add extra work to their designs just so that NI can make extra money with their eco system.
Nothing at all about this is about user benefit, example, maschine....
"Oh cool, you can have expansions that are in their own section in the browser relevant to that expansion with their own imagery and so on" "Oh wait, so you created that ability but then dont allow users to do that with their own made content, everything is just bunched under Maschine"
A perfect example that non of this has even an inkling of thought for user usefullness, nothing but continual expansive selling, you can bet right now that NKS and its associated browser is NIs wet dream for an itunes style selling front end and at some point the developers who get on board will end up not only have extra code but also paying a commision, there is literally zero reason otherwise not to make this an open standard
Anybody considering this as the universal "one size fits all, everything ready mapped" standard, is fooling themselves, Akai have no access to use it on their hardware, so already there is a competing system, Novation have no access to it, competing system number 3 (they are the originators mind you), on and on and on and on infinitum because this and non of the other systems are "OPEN"
This will never work for any developer and only when it is part of a free and open universal standard that every hardware manufacturer can support will it be useful.
Duh
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- KVRian
- 591 posts since 10 Nov, 2005 from New York City
In every thread about this, Bungle comes in and seems really butt hurt for whatever reason.
I for one actually have Maschine and a Kontrol keyboard and find this integration a great step in the right direction. I don't really care if the community makes the patches or if NI / the developers do, as long as the workflow is good - and it is! It's way better than AutoMap or anything else that came before it.
I for one actually have Maschine and a Kontrol keyboard and find this integration a great step in the right direction. I don't really care if the community makes the patches or if NI / the developers do, as long as the workflow is good - and it is! It's way better than AutoMap or anything else that came before it.
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- KVRAF
- 37389 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
I just wish there was a controller only version (Maschine is not it) - I do think NI would do better if there was, many musicians have keyboards already (I have 4 and don't need another) but the market for a decent controller/librarian is much wider.5Lives wrote: I for one actually have Maschine and a Kontrol keyboard and find this integration a great step in the right direction. I don't really care if the community makes the patches or if NI / the developers do, as long as the workflow is good - and it is! It's way better than AutoMap or anything else that came before it.