Push 2 - will it kick start my creative juices ?

[elxsound]

Thanks

So is it just an "instrument" to play Live, or an instrument / compositional tool so one can complete entire tracks with it ?

I gather it has no significant integration with the Arrange page, so can you create complete tracks via Session view + Push 2 ?

No significant integration with Arrange, but Push 2 IS useful for completing a track, thanks to the Mix view where you can view the meters as you adjust your levels.

[elxsound]

I'll second everything what deastman said. I have Push and love it, it's an instrument and really let's you focus on making music.
One thing though, it's not the most ideal to do sounddesign (not impossible, just not its strength), and you won't be able to browse the presets for most of your VST's (everything from Live you can browse though).
And yes, you have to go to Live and the arrangement view to finish a song. But what I usually do prior to that, is to record a performance from the session via (with Push), into the arrangement view, so that a barebones arrangement already exist when I start.

I wouldn't agree with you about the sound design, but that I'm sure depends on what you are working with.

If you're working with samples via Simpler.... this is amazing. I have lots of raw recordings that I can easily chop up (remember you can use pads to create slices now), re-pitch, extract to drum racks and then further tweak... plus adding additional devices is very fast.

If you're working in native devices like Operator, you will be in for a treat as Operator is absolutely lovely on Push 2. They really put in some work to integrate this device via Push... And an FM synth is an essential sound design tool.

But yes, VST presets are hit and miss as being browsable via Push 2 (unless you create your racks for the plugins, which was the same issue on Push 1).

[basic channel]

I guess the main thrust of my thoughts here is by simplifying the creative process (minimise distractions of superfluous instruments, effects etc.) then I may get a lot more fun in composing music.

Focusing on Live + Push 2 (using only Live Suite sounds / instruments (of which there are quite a lot !) +/- external samples) I can throw myself into the creative process and increase my chances of getting good results. So not using other VST plugins not really a burning issue for me.

I'd hardly call using Live Suite & Push 2 a "limitation" (often recommended by people to improve success rate at finishing projects) as it has a pretty vast number of possibilities - but that's part of my thinking here.

[BDeep]

I'll second everything what deastman said. I have Push and love it, it's an instrument and really let's you focus on making music.
One thing though, it's not the most ideal to do sounddesign (not impossible, just not its strength), and you won't be able to browse the presets for most of your VST's (everything from Live you can browse though).
And yes, you have to go to Live and the arrangement view to finish a song. But what I usually do prior to that, is to record a performance from the session via (with Push), into the arrangement view, so that a barebones arrangement already exist when I start.

I wouldn't agree with you about the sound design, but that I'm sure depends on what you are working with.

If you're working with samples via Simpler.... this is amazing. I have lots of raw recordings that I can easily chop up (remember you can use pads to create slices now), re-pitch, extract to drum racks and then further tweak... plus adding additional devices is very fast.

If you're working in native devices like Operator, you will be in for a treat as Operator is absolutely lovely on Push 2. They really put in some work to integrate this device via Push... And an FM synth is an essential sound design tool.

But yes, VST presets are hit and miss as being browsable via Push 2 (unless you create your racks for the plugins, which was the same issue on Push 1).

Yes, you're right, I probably should've been more clear. It works good for the Ableton devices, and of course Simpler is now just great (but I barely use samples, so it wasn't the first thing that sprung to mind). But most VSTs that is use have so many parameters that if rather use the GUI then browsing through multiple banks on Push, but it's a typical case of YMMV.
By the way, you can now load VSTs directly from Push (1 and 2). Also, you don't need to use racks anymore for parameter mapping, as you can just configure the parameters and then save as default configuration (which is a Live function, and thus also works on Push 1). Only thing still lacking for third party devices is browsing their presets.

EDIT: mis-read your post a little, you were just talking about browsing presets when you mentioned racks... So yeah, agreed

[elxsound]

Agreed and agreed!

I'm definitely looking forward to tighter integration and customization for working with 3rd party plugins. That would be an amazing improvement to build and what they've made available.

And actually... I missed that you could save the 3rd party plugs as a default configuration. This will speed things up so quickly! I'm away from the computer so I can't set it up yet, but I have a list.

[elxsound]

I guess the main thrust of my thoughts here is by simplifying the creative process (minimise distractions of superfluous instruments, effects etc.) then I may get a lot more fun in composing music.

Focusing on Live + Push 2 (using only Live Suite sounds / instruments (of which there are quite a lot !) +/- external samples) I can throw myself into the creative process and increase my chances of getting good results. So not using other VST plugins not really a burning issue for me.

I'd hardly call using Live Suite & Push 2 a "limitation" (often recommended by people to improve success rate at finishing projects) as it has a pretty vast number of possibilities - but that's part of my thinking here.

IMO yes... As it does simplify the creative process (again IMO).

Yes, there is a limitation, because it's a workflow limitation but to me that workflow is incredibly fluid. The best part is that if you are already used to using Live, then working with Push simplifies the Ableton Live workflow (so it doesn't feel like a limitation). This is the reason I feel it has benefitted me. I work primarily with Live, so using Push just made life easier.

Anyway I for one won't talk you out of it (if you haven't figured that out already)!

I do think there's room for improvement, but I also don't think they are not actively working on it in some respect. Given the lifespan of Push 1 (3 years), this would also be a great time to jump in if you haven't already. I have almost two years in to Push and again, I don't regret the move at all.

As a user who used to frequent the forums here used tell me... Buying something new doesn't make sense unless it either makes you sound better, or helps you achieve results quicker. For me, the second part was my motivation... but one could also make an argument for the first part too due to the way you work after using it.

[basic channel]

Thanks again

I guess one slight reservation is that I've only really dabbled with Live (unlike you by the sounds of it), and am a relative novice.

Therefore there will definitely be fairly steep learning curve for me (both to truly familiarise myself with Live, and learn how to control it with Push 2).

My will power is beginning to crumble though

[elxsound]

Do you have access to any music stores where you can try it out before purchasing?

I don' think the learning curve is incredibly steep compared to using Live with a mouse. In fact, I think in many ways it is easier and would have been easier if I had started with Push + Live, versus just Live (and I started using Live in 2007 but am of course always learning new "tricks" with it still).

The things I go back to Live's UI for are groove pool for humanizing midi, fine tuning of automation created initially with Push, clip playback mode for when a bit of random is needed, and of course 3rd party plugin UI's not easily controllable via Live (like Kontakt/Kontakt libraries).

The nice thing about the controller is that you see the most used options in live directly in front of you and immediately accessible to your finger tips.

The place where things are more hidden, are when the "shift" button is put to use (mute/solo modes for adding muted or solo tracks, or for fine tuning of parameters). I don't too many menus require drilling down excessively or are hard to navigate to. IMO it is really well thought out.

Still if you get a chance... try it before buying. I didn't get a chance to try it physically, but of course lucked out that I find the workflow so agreeable. If its not an option, then hopefully the videos will keep pouring in so you can see how it'll work for you.

[basic channel]

How does Push 2 compare with the new Novation Launchpad Pro ?

[BDeep]

You'll miss much of the integration with Live in regards to specific functions, I'm pretty sure it won't give you a "hands off" experience like Push does. Besides, controlling instrument parameters and samples is not possible at all...
I think you'll use a Launchpad like you'd use a master keyboard, or for live performance. Push you'd use to create a song without looking at a screen most of the time. It's probably not that black and white, but you get the gist.

For what you want, I recommend Push even though it's considerably more expensive. It's really hard to tell its usefulness without using it. It's more than the sum of its parts as it were.

[JonSolo]

Well as I mentioned in the other thread...mine is on the way!

[basic channel]

I think somewhere in my mind I am this dude ...

[BDeep]

What he does is not that hard, finger drumming takes some skill, but it's easier than you think, and you can always use the stepsequencer.
Anyway, what's he's doing with Push is a decent showcase, just as Ableton's videos of the previous Push where they hid the laptop, it's not just marketing, it can actually work like that.

[basic channel]

I think my mind is made up.

Might wait for the usual price reduction offer though.

[BDeep]

I think it took them about two years for the first sale on the original Push... Just saying, don't know how your patience is