Imitone -- wow! Most embarassing post I ever started

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imitone 0.8.0 has been released. (Users may update here.)

I'm happy to report that after these long months of R&D, it's far more effective than its predecessors, achieving considerably lower latency, greater accuracy and nearly eliminating the ghosting phenomenon. It isn't perfected yet, but it's a very substantial step in that direction.

I haven't formally announced the release yet, for reasons mentioned below.


Now that my work is done and I have room to breathe, I'd like to answer some of the tough questions that have been raised here. I think that there's a lot to learn by having a discussion here.


Q: Why would you prioritize a standalone over a VST?

A: Because existing music software is designed around external controllers.

I had a really interesting conversation with a musician the other day, who at first insisted that imitone needed to be a VST to be useful to him. After a short discussion, though, he changed his tune completely, and then cautioned me against using the word "standalone" when explaining my software to pro audio people.

imitone is designed as a MIDI interface, performing the function of a keyboard in a musical workflow. Imagine a black box with XLR input and USB MIDI output... Then subtract the box. The most substantial differences are the lack of a physical component and the fact that it needs to use a system audio input.

Regarding the plugin format, I am aware of no DAW on the market which can treat an audio-to-MIDI plugin as a MIDI interface for purposes of workflow. Using such a plugin invariably requires the user to access and reconfigure routings for otherwise trivial operations like switching instruments. That greatly raises the level of proficiency needed to set up and use my software, and makes it quite a lot less convenient to boot.

I will still be developing the plugin, of course, and depending on the discussion here I might well bump it up my priority list. I fully understand that for certain uses it will be the better tool. I've also been researching, and it turns out many of the constraints I've been worrying over will not be a problem.


Q: Why would anyone want a voice MIDI interface?
Just one question..WHY???
Why would you want to play midi notes with your voice live? You can just as easily play them with a keyboard.
A: If you need to ask, imitone probably isn't useful to you.

My primary reason for creating imitone is to give beginners a way to have the experience of musical proficiency and expression without the long practice and dexterity which are typically required to play a keyboard or instrument. I'm trying to make something that would have allowed me to start making music earlier in my life if I had encountered it.

As the project has gone on, however, it has become clear that the software offers many other possibilities relevant to experienced musicians:
  • A professional vocalist or non-keyboard instrumentalist may apply their best skills as MIDI control.
  • A keyboard player may use imitone as a third hand in a multitimbral performance.
  • A disabled musician may use imitone to supplement or replace a keyboard in their workflow.
  • Live power and vibrato articulations allow a high degree of expressive control over instruments which provide these features, making hand automation unnecessary. (The planned brightness and harmonicity articulations will extend this control even further.)
  • Legato & portamento transitions between pitches are generally more intuitive than on a piano interface.
  • Vocal improvisation is a different creative process than playing a keyboard and tends to result in different sounds and ideas.

Q: Why is it taking so long?

A: Because I built a better mousetrap and then realized it wasn't nearly good enough.

Real-time pitch tracking is a very difficult problem. Old-school audio tech folks have given me an earful about this -- people have been trying to make it work since the 80s [1]. Companies and universities have put much bigger budgets than mine and much more knowledgeable people than myself to work on the problem and come up empty-handed after months or years. Apparently, this is how some of the more powerful voice-controlled synthesizers on the market came to be: They started as attempts to make what I'm making.

At the time of the imitone Kickstarter, I had made a lot of progress with my algorithm and genuinely believed the software was almost finished -- it wasn't far from being state-of-the-art. In January, after months of work, I had improved it to the point where it was working better than any predecessor -- and realized it was still almost useless for its designed purpose.

I get the idea that some people here would be content with a version 1.0 incorporating technology not much better than what I had running in 0.7. I also get the idea that any other company in my position would put out a crippled technology like that at substantially higher cost -- in fact, several already have: [1] [2] [3]

As of January, I'm not trying to be better than my predecessors; I'm trying to create something completely different. imitone will be version 1.0 when -- and only when -- it can change the landscape of digital music. (Yes, I'm an ideologue.)

Lastly, yes, I have other projects going on alongside imitone. I estimate that in these nine months, they have accounted for about a third of my working time. On that note...


Q: How can you justify working on another project after raising $90,000 with imitone?

A: I have my own ideas about integrity, and dollar value does not trump those.

First, I asked for $20,000 to cover licensing and freelancers, and made it clear I had other active projects at the time. At the time, I had been involved with SoundSelf for about a year, and it had also been the subject of another successful Kickstarter campaign.

Second, if I was the type of person who abandoned a commitment to a project like that, would I be worth trusting with my commitment to this one?


Q: What about Infinite Blank?

A: It's one of the biggest regrets of my career.

For the uninitiated, Infinite Blank is a Kickstarter campaign I ran in 2010 which raised $2,500 from about 100 backers and never delivered. It was to be a completely non-commercial creative MMO, with me acting as sole developer, community manager, chief moderator and server administrator. It was an idealistic project and wildly, insanely ambitious; I wouldn't have finished it with $100,000. (I still love the idea.)

I wrote about it on imitone's Kickstarter page under "Risks & Challenges". I also gave the Infinite Blank backers copies of imitone as a sort of compensation. Surprisingly none of my Infinite Blank backers requested refunds, but I'd be happy to oblige them if they did: I fell short of my promises.

The failure of that project gave me reason to delay the imitone Kickstarter until -- I thought -- it was nearly finished. The lingering sense of guilt is additional motivation not to disappoint again.


Q: My Anti-Virus software does not like you.

A: Working on it.
Careful visiting his website. It kicks up a malicious payload warning here.
I had a badly-configured HTTPS certificate on one of my sites, which I've now addressed; thanks for speaking up.
BitDefender is blocking the beta 0.70 download for me as well. It says that the site is not safe.
[Many antivirus systems will flag any software that hasn't been installed by a large number of users without issue as potentially harmful. It's a pain in the butt for small developers like myself, because it means that until we have a few hundred or thousand installs our users get warnings. I submit to the Symantec whitelisting program and apply secure cryptographic signatures to my builds but that doesn't cover everything.

Incidentally, this is part of the reason I'm delaying the announcement of the update: Whitelisting can take a few days, and can only be initiated once the final software is ready.


-----


My ears are open to responses to the above and further questions. Again, I think I have a lot to learn from the discussion here.
imitone: transform your voice into any instrument.

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interactopia wrote:Regarding the plugin format, I am aware of no DAW on the market which can treat an audio-to-MIDI plugin as a MIDI interface for purposes of workflow. Using such a plugin invariably requires the user to access and reconfigure routings for otherwise trivial operations like switching instruments. That greatly raises the level of proficiency needed to set up and use my software, and makes it quite a lot less convenient to boot.
How many DAWs are you aware of which allow you to share low-latency audio drivers with another, separate software application? Because that's the use case you'd need to deal with for anyone who actually want their DAW to record the audio from an external MIDI synthesiser while your standalone software is using different inputs on what's almost certainly going to be the same soundcard.

Or are you saying you want your system to be viewed as a MIDI controller but dont expect it to be used in conjunction with MIDI hardware? Or that you think its best if your software isnt a plugin, because its only going to drive plugins, not external hardware?

And for those DAWS that do manage to deal with sharing an audio device with another application, how do you avoid the situation that invariably requires the user user to access and reconfigure routings for otherwise trivial operations like recording instruments. Because that also greatly raises the level of proficiency needed (to switch between either using one bit of software or two bits of software in tandem, via the same soundcard), making it quite a lot less convenient to boot.
Notwithstanding the fact that you're not currently presenting Imitone as a MIDI device to the OS in the first place, but rather something on the 'other' end of a virtual MIDI cable, which, in itself 'greatly raises the level of proficiency needed' etc etc.

Yes, there are DAWS that are not great at handling the routing of audio->MIDI plugins. Virtual MIDI cables aint much of an improvement, though.

And adding to that, I think you're underestimating the issue of not factoring in plugin support in the architecture from the start. I think that, having taken funds for producing a VST, your design should be factored around that requirement instead of delaying it on the basis that you think it can be easily added later. I'm pretty damn sure it wont be even close to straightforward to turn a linear standalone application into a cross-platform cross-DAW plugin if you dont factor the plugin architecture requirements in from the start.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."

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The only part of this I'm concerned about is the VST version.

- In Bitwig Studio the whole routing topic is pretty much trivial to non existent as I wrote to you before. Check out the Demo. I would simply put Imitone as the first VST in the device chain of an audio track, optionally some other Midi plugins behind it and after that my instrument for live control. If I want to record the output of the plugin, I set the input of another instrument track to the track with imitone on it and hit record. Done.

- In many other DAWs it's not as simple, but very doable and people working with this kind of plugin know how it works (or are able to find out). Not your concern really, a simple FAQ like I linked you to for JamOrigin Midi Guitar would do.

- YOUR SOFTWARE IS NOT A CONTROLLER. A hardware box is totally different from a standalone software.
You need virtual midi cables, have problems with ASIO etc. I think your comparison simply does not apply. And in my experience, the standalone setup is not as simple and problem free as you make it out to be. For every problem the standalone "solves" something else comes up. For some people the standalone will be fine, others will prefer the VST. Why not leave that to the user.

- I think I stated all my reasons for a VST before in this thread. For me it would make the difference between a tool I can hardly use and find a major pain and something I could easily integrate into my workflow.

- I don't think anybody has a problem with you prioritizing the standalone over the VST, that was clear from the beginning, but there is prioritizing and prioritizing - I would have expected to see at least some initial effort put into a VST until now and maybe a first alpha version.
In the time you think and argue about it you could probably have created a first prototype, learned a lot, showed people that you are on track and be a more happy person ;-)

On KVR, you will probably get a majority of people who would prefer the VST, since everybody here is using VSTs all the time, knows how it works or can ask for help from others.

I don't know you well enough to really understand why you run around the VST topic like a cat around a bathtube, but I'd say: just hop in and get it over with - it's not as bad as you seem to think and as soon as there is a prototype you will get feedback and have something real to talk about. I don't know if the guys at Jam Origin would be available for a chat, but they are doing exactly the same thing, have a standalone and a VST version, I prefer the VST and it works just fine for translating Bass and Guitar to Midi.

All the best,

Tom
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." · Rumi
UrbanFlow.art · Instagram · YouTube

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As somebody that is still interested in Imitone, no matter which route it goes, however did not back the project due to tight finances, I'd like to address a couple of things here.

interactopia wrote:Q: Why would you prioritize a standalone over a VST?

A: Because existing music software is designed around external controllers.

I will still be developing the plugin, of course, and depending on the discussion here I might well bump it up my priority list. I fully understand that for certain uses it will be the better tool. I've also been researching, and it turns out many of the constraints I've been worrying over will not be a problem.
As pointed out several times, a plugin version would not only make it possible to save settings within a project, but also dumb down things drastically. Just load it as insert, connect your MIDI devices inside the host. Done.

The main issue I have with so called "external controllers" is that each tool needs it's own set of drivers, program routines, Loopback systems to connect to the host you're using, run a dedicated software in the background, etc.

A VST/AU/AAX version would definitely ignore all that. But, in order to use it in every host available, you need to provide different plugin formats. While a so called "stand alone" or "external" solutions means only two (if you provide for Linux as well, then three) executables (program suites). And then it's down to the user what type of loopback device he/she is using. Unless, you already provide the MIDI drivers/loopback system like a lot of other companies do lately (they're just loaded in the background like an external multi I/O MIDI box, and then available as I/O within the host - example: Musiclab's Struminator technology, installs with the RealGuitar VSTi, connect a GuitarHero game controller, set your MIDI connects, start playing).


As long as the system is working, and is dead simple without jumping hoops (read: install a MIDI Loopback device), I'm game.


interactopia wrote:Q: Why would anyone want a voice MIDI interface?
...
A: If you need to ask, imitone probably isn't useful to you.

...
  • A professional vocalist or non-keyboard instrumentalist may apply their best skills as MIDI control.
  • A keyboard player may use imitone as a third hand in a multitimbral performance.
  • A disabled musician may use imitone to supplement or replace a keyboard in their workflow.
  • Live power and vibrato articulations allow a high degree of expressive control over instruments which provide these features, making hand automation unnecessary. (The planned brightness and harmonicity articulations will extend this control even further.)
  • Legato & portamento transitions between pitches are generally more intuitive than on a piano interface.
  • Vocal improvisation is a different creative process than playing a keyboard and tends to result in different sounds and ideas.
You forgot another one:
Those that can play an instrument, but are not confident enough to pull it off to play in real time (actual recording), might definitely benefit from that tool.

Example: you have so many ideas in your head but get constantly frustrated while sitting in front of a keyboard. Beat programming is fairly easy (especially if you played drums or percussions). But melody and additional harmony? Just hum or whistle it if your skills are not that great enough to pull it off otherwise on a keyboard. Yet, or even never.


interactopia wrote:Q: Why is it taking so long?

A: Because I built a better mousetrap and then realized it wasn't nearly good enough.

...

As of January, I'm not trying to be better than my predecessors; I'm trying to create something completely different. imitone will be version 1.0 when -- and only when -- it can change the landscape of digital music. (Yes, I'm an ideologue.)
I rather have a constant beta that works and is fairly stable, than a bug-ridden release that is updated every 1/4th year for a hefty fee (quick money grab) and adds nothing much to the table.


While we're at it... I understand that your tool responds to intensity of the sung/whistled signal (breath). Ever thought releasing just a dedicated breath controller as freeware appetizer? You could test your VST skills with this, and hook interested parties to your big engine with this freebie.

Something like this:




interactopia wrote:Q: How can you justify working on another project after raising $90,000 with imitone?

A: I have my own ideas about integrity, and dollar value does not trump those.

First, I asked for $20,000 to cover licensing and freelancers, and made it clear I had other active projects at the time. At the time, I had been involved with SoundSelf for about a year, and it had also been the subject of another successful Kickstarter campaign.

Second, if I was the type of person who abandoned a commitment to a project like that, would I be worth trusting with my commitment to this one?
The thing is, you're a one-man army. And you set a really high bar for your project. So people do expect a working tool, ideally at an instant rather than being for years in beta.

As beta tester for various companies (some of them being "one man armies" as well), I understand both camps, and the involved frustration.


interactopia wrote:My ears are open to responses to the above and further questions. Again, I think I have a lot to learn from the discussion here.
I hope my comments are a good start towards that direction.
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I don't think you can create Midi plugins with AU?
At least that was the last I heard...
I don't know about AAX.

But anyway: VST was the format offered in the funding campaign and it would cover a wide range of bases.

Cheers,

Tom
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." · Rumi
UrbanFlow.art · Instagram · YouTube

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I've just spent a while playing around with 0.8.0. I can't get it to even remotely reliably track my voice at all. From what I can tell, its picking out some of the harmonics and jumping around between octaves quite a bit.

Its very discouraging that this isn't more stable yet. I built a much more reliable voice to MIDI tracker on my Nord Modular G2 over a decade ago.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

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Thanks Evan! I didn't read through the responses yet. As a prime user, do I need to authorize it somehow?

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Musical Gym wrote:Thanks Evan! I didn't read through the responses yet. As a prime user, do I need to authorize it somehow?
As far as I know, he hasn't released Imitone Prime yet, and probably won't until after the basic version is out of beta. I paid for that as well...
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

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deastman wrote:
Musical Gym wrote:Thanks Evan! I didn't read through the responses yet. As a prime user, do I need to authorize it somehow?
As far as I know, he hasn't released Imitone Prime yet, and probably won't until after the basic version is out of beta. I paid for that as well...
thanks

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I am just catching up here. This looks like a fast way to lay down a bunch of basic tracks in a hurry while you are in the zone. The only way I would even consider it was if I could add it as an instrument track in Cubase, Create another VSTi track and set the midi input to that instrument as the output of the Imitone instrument track. An example would be Cthulu from Xfer. Cubase sees it as an instrument who's midi output can be routed to another VSTi. There is no way that I'd ever go beyond that to use pretty much any product.

I skipped a bunch of pages here, but so far, I don't even understand how this thing works and allows audio recording in a DAW. Yes, I get the appeal. There is potential here for something good. Maybe I'll end up buying it when it behaves as I've described. JMHO.
In rotation here: Helios- Eingya

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This brings me to a very important point with Cubase on Windows: sharing the ASIO driver.


If there is a Cubase user on Windows (7 and up), I'd love to hear if there are any issues.
Because Cubase is really narrow-minded in terms of using ASIO drivers. Meaning: only one host can use it, not shared. Unless the host can be rewired (like Cubase and Reason).

So... if you have Imitone as "MIDI Box", which needs an ASIO port (to access one of your ADC inputs), and then want to forward that analyzed signal as MIDI to Cubase on Windows, who also wants to use the ASIO driver (actually, has the priority on it), then things could definitely not work out. A workaround is using the plain PC audio input. But I'd rather not go there at all. Huge latency, I can not connect a mic I like (except for an USB mic), etc.


Mac drivers are different on that behalf and have no issue in terms of easy sharing. But I see a huge issue on Windows with Cubase.

So in this case, I'd definitely prefer a VST/VSTi version. Actually, I don't have much choice otherwise.
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whyterabbyt wrote:How many DAWs are you aware of which allow you to share low-latency audio drivers with another, separate software application?
Compyfox wrote:This brings me to a very important point with Cubase on Windows: sharing the ASIO driver.
This is still the biggest problem with side-by-side operation and the strongest case for the VST as far as I'm concerned. It's why I announced a VST version in the first place.

One passable workaround in the meantime is to have imitone use a spare USB mic via Kernel Mode or ASIO4ALL. So long as the audio isn't completely broken (and I test with horrible mics) it can track quite accurately. But I acknowledge this is a pain.
compyfox wrote:...A plugin version would make it possible to save settings within a project...
...But this is another very good reason.
whyterabbyt wrote:Notwithstanding the fact that you're not currently presenting Imitone as a MIDI device to the OS in the first place, but rather something on the 'other' end of a virtual MIDI cable...
ThomasHelzle wrote:You need virtual midi cables
compyfox wrote:It's down to the user what type of loopback device he/she is using, unless you already provide the MIDI drivers/loopback system like a lot of other companies do lately.
There seems to be some misinformation here: The imitone beta has never required a separate virtual MIDI cable to operate on Windows or Mac. When using a DAW with automatic input detection (like Logic), imitone can be used with zero set-up. It does get to be a pain with old-fashioned DAWs that don't support hotplugging, though.

I had a pretty bad experience with Digital Ear and the need for a separate loopback was one of the things I found very unprofessional about it. So during the imitone alpha I licensed the VirtualMIDI driver from Tobias Erichsen to integrate that functionality into my software (with better latency than a loopback). For some time, there was an incompatibility between the driver Tobias gave me and the one used in the latest public LoopMIDI -- and I do apologize for that inconvenience -- but he has since put out an update which resolves that problem.
whyterabbyt wrote:Or are you saying you want your system to be viewed as a MIDI controller but dont expect it to be used in conjunction with MIDI hardware? Or that you think its best if your software isnt a plugin, because its only going to drive plugins, not external hardware?
Every beta version of imitone can be used to drive external hardware.
ThomasHelzle wrote:I rather have a constant beta that works and is fairly stable, than a bug-ridden release that is updated every 1/4th year for a hefty fee (quick money grab) and adds nothing much to the table.
I won't be pulling the likes of this nine-month vanishing act again. I'm going to put together a more formal update schedule for the completion of the project.

And, to be perfectly clear, I don't charge for updates. (I think you were talking about another project, though?)
MusicalGym wrote:I didn't read through the responses yet. As a prime user, do I need to authorize it somehow?
I'm renaming prime to studio. You should see "imitone studio" on the interface if you've used that key.

Currently the only studio-specific features which are available are multiple-voice tracking (currently configured by right-clicking on MIDI channels in setup) and a hidden brightness control function which can be toggled with control-B. Once the fundamental functions of the software are solid I'll be developing more of these advanced features. The price of the studio edition is discounted (to $60) until that begins.
deastman wrote:As far as I know, he hasn't released Imitone Prime yet, and probably won't until after the basic version is out of beta.
Studio features will debut before the end of beta, but they aren't at the top of my list for the most part.
deastman wrote:I've just spent a while playing around with 0.8.0. I can't get it to even remotely reliably track my voice at all.
I suspect a malfunction and would be interested in more details. Are you singing in the vocal fry register (deep and throaty)? What kind of microphone are you using? Is auto-adjust enabled? What's the sensitivity mode? Is the environment noisy? If you could make a recording and send it my way, I could run it through my testbed and diagnose the issue.

I've been having professional friends test this and they've been reporting very good results other than the "flutter" effect. (A bug which induces brief notes of the same pitch on attack and release.)
imitone: transform your voice into any instrument.

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Let me just say as one of the backers, I backed this project primarily in expectation of a VST version and that's what I would like to use.

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If this tech dies without a VST it will be the greatest dsp tragedy Ive ever witnessed.
ImageImageImageImage

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interactopia wrote:This is still the biggest problem with side-by-side operation and the strongest case for the VST as far as I'm concerned. It's why I announced a VST version in the first place.

One passable workaround in the meantime is to have imitone use a spare USB mic via Kernel Mode or ASIO4ALL. So long as the audio isn't completely broken (and I test with horrible mics) it can track quite accurately. But I acknowledge this is a pain.
It definitely is(!) a pain for pro-studio users.
I don't want to stand on any side here, just point out different sides of the medal.

On one hand, this tool is aimed at the "unskilled" musicians, or those that just want to get stuff done rather than mess around with a keyboard. For those people, it doesn't matter what type of mic they use. Your videos even showed the MacBook built-in one. USB mics or cheap Skype headsets (TRS plugs) are not that expensive.

On the other hand we have those people that already have a considerable amount of studio equipment. Those people don't have(!) an USB mic, neither do they want to build an XLR to 3,5mm TRS adapter just to connect a mic to the PC input (if it's even still active). So these are extra hoops to jump through. Especially on the PC platform due to the ASIO driver sharing.

I'm no user yet, so I can't give any further input on this. Then again, wouldn't the highest priority be the usability of your tool without(!) jumping hoops, and without focusing on a Mac platform only (which does allow driver sharing IIRC)?

This way, your backers can actually use the tool they paid for. Which in turn means positive feedback, and that in turn means more funds for further development.

Hence my idea:
Create a VST breath controller as "test platform" (see my last post) - most of the code is already available. Test for 1 month, take the feedback to improve on possible bugs. And start to port Imitone to VST/AU/AAX in parallel.

interactopia wrote:
compyfox wrote:...A plugin version would make it possible to save settings within a project...
...But this is another very good reason.
This should not be seen as the only "good" reason - it's a positive by-product.

interactopia wrote:There seems to be some misinformation here: The imitone beta has never required a separate virtual MIDI cable to operate on Windows or Mac. When using a DAW with automatic input detection (like Logic), imitone can be used with zero set-up. It does get to be a pain with old-fashioned DAWs that don't support hotplugging, though.
And here is a comment I am slowly start to hate hearing:
"mac this, mac that, oldfashioned here, oldfashioned there". This topic can be easily extended to the Android and Linux platform as well.

Look, I don't disregard the Mac Platform. For years it was simple and problem free. Hence the reason why people got Macs rather than a PC, and focused on Logic/ProTools only to get stuff done. But times have changed. We now have the big 4 (Steinberg, Apple, AVID, Presonus), some old cats (Magix, Cakewalk), and the modern bunch (Image Line, Bitwig, Ableton, Cockos, Plogue, MuTools, etc).

A majority of these hosts are cross platform, and not an inconsiderable amount of the users are on PC. These users are ultimately locked out due to the fact that you insist on a standalone tool, which makes driver sharing on PC nearly impossible (again, not an issue for the Mac OS platform - a thing that also bugs me with DrumsAnywhere - especially the pro version which is the only version that sends MIDI to another host and is also not a VSTi! Fun for PC studio users).


I'm not the person to tell you what to do - it's your company. But in order to be successful and revolutionary (and that is what you clearly presented through your Kickstarter Campaign), you need to(!) take note of the bigger picture. And with your more than successful Kickstarter campaign (20k goal, 90k capital - so 70k plus! A lot of dosh for a one man army), people do expect that - pretty much ASAP! And rightfully so.



interactopia wrote:
Compyfox wrote:I rather have a constant beta that works and is fairly stable, than a bug-ridden release that is updated every 1/4th year for a hefty fee (quick money grab) and adds nothing much to the table.
I won't be pulling the likes of this nine-month vanishing act again. I'm going to put together a more formal update schedule for the completion of the project.

And, to be perfectly clear, I don't charge for updates. (I think you were talking about another project, though?)
First and foremost - that quote was from me, not Thomas.

On the other hand... as of this moment, people are scared off from your tool due to several reasons:

a) barely any movement
b) the home-page is so scarce on information it's not even funny
c) return policy is a bit wonky
d) beta status for several months already


I am a beta tester for various companies. And I've seen the one or another thing in recent years. Which is why I said that betas could work just as well as actual release versions. But what turns me off big time is the "preorder" and "Early Access" mentality that is known from video games that slowly crawls (actually, it hit us full circle already) into the Audio Engineering realm.

Once more, I do understand what you're planning to do. I understand your goal.
But even though I am patient, others are not. Especially those that paid you to get started ASAP.


The comparison I took with "paying for updates every 1/4th year" is reminiscent to that (gaming realm). And there are a couple of companies these days, that rather ask for a quick buck (full priced update) rather than going to .1 maintenance updates. Then again, not everyone can be Spectrasonics and drag out updates until v1.99.9.9.x.



I will keep my eye on your tool, Evan.
But I'm not too fond of some of the thought process.
Last edited by Compyfox on Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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