Which time signature is used for this short, simple piece?

[planetearth]

I can't seem to figure out the time signature for this piece I started. (Admittedly, 6/8 is about as "fancy" as I get.)

https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife/ti ... st/s-RKmvC

I'm pretty sure the rhythm is also throwing me off, but I'd like to set my DAW for the proper time signature to make MIDI editing easier later, when I layer more parts. So, does anyone know what this is?

It isn't played very well, but you'll probably get the idea in about 10 seconds, if you haven't already forgotten most of your "proper" musical training--as I obviously have.

Thanks!

Steve

[Ridan]

7/4 ?

[planetearth]

7/4 ?

I thought so too, at first. But when I set Sonar to 7/4, some of the notes fell into other measures, where they should have ended before repeating the whole thing again.

I love it when Sting does stuff like this, and makes 7/4, 11/4 and stuff like that still sound cool and "natural". When I do it, it flows as naturally as trying to dance...with three legs.

I'll try 7/4 again...maybe I missed something when I set it up the first time. I don't think they're straight eighth-notes either, though. And I think that's throwing me off, somehow.

Steve

[nordickvr]

Sounds 6/8 to me.
3/4 could work too.
Your choice between 2 or 3 beats per measure respectivly.

[planetearth]

Sounds 6/8 to me.
3/4 could work too.
Your choice between 2 or 3 beats per measure respectivly.

Thanks. I had tried those as well, but each time the piece repeats, the first note falls further and further into the next measure.

I also tried 4/4 and quantized the notes (for testing purposes) as 16th note triplets, 8th note triplets, and dotted versions of 16th and 8th notes. But whether I'm in 3/4, 4/4, 5/8, 6/8, 7/4 or 9/4, each time the phrase repeats, it's further into the next measure. And I don't think my playing was *that* far off that I'm slow in starting each successive repeat of the phrase.

There must be something I'm missing (other than music theory knowledge). I'd upload the one-track MIDI file, but KVR doesn't allow .MID files.

Steve

[someone called simon]

if you count:

1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 6 &,

all the notes will fall on that grid.. the played notes in bold here...

1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 6 &

so definitely 6 beats, or maybe 3 if you prefer, but not 4 or 7 etc.

[cryophonik]

On first listen, it sounds like a mixed meter of repeating 6/8 and 3/4 to me.

||: 6/8 XxxXxx | 3/4 X X X |

Or, on another listen I'm not so sure that the first half is triple compound. I'm thinking it's just 6/4, maybe with a swing feel on the off-beat notes in the first half? Probably splitting hairs here, but this makes more sense.

[planetearth]

if you count:

1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 6 &,

all the notes will fall on that grid.. the played notes in bold here...

1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 6 &

so definitely 6 beats, or maybe 3 if you prefer, but not 4 or 7 etc.

But why do they start later in the measure with each successive repeat?

Sounds like a mixed meter of repeating 6/8 and 3/4 to me.

||: 6/8 XxxXxx | 3/4 X X X |

You may be on to something there....

I've uploaded the .FLAC audio file and the single-track MIDI file, so that all of you who are gracious enough to try to help with this can look at the MIDI file on a grid in your DAW and see what happens when you change time signatures. In my DAW, no matter what I do, the pattern I play never lines up with a "straight" (that is, one that doesn't change between measures) time signature.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pyai85nyhta6 ... Te75a?dl=0

Maybe a look at the MIDI file will make it easier to answer...?

Thanks again for all your help!

Steve

[someone called simon]

well, maybe the playing isn't quite in time with the tempo or something. If I count to it, it fits fine. in fact, I counted along to it and recorded it. I tried to attach it to this post but it seems sound files aren't allowed...
here's a link to it. doesn't start till about 12 seconds into the file.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2avus ... sp=sharing

[Shmoe]

Pretty sure it's in 11/8 phrased as 5/8 + 3/4.

[jancivil]

it does seem like 5/8 + 3/4 (12123 1,2,3) but it's off in places, so there it's more 11 and a half/8 (which you almost surely do not want) in all. But, for sure, consider the first note of this a pickup note, an 8th note before the downbeat. My first instinct was keep it simple, 3/4 but you're not finding that to work in the sequencer it appears. I bet your idea is more 12123 1,2,3. See if you can't resolve it to 11/8.

[someone called simon]

Ok I mapped your midi file to 6/8. Your playing is not exactly precise, the repeating phrase does not fall in exactly the same place each time it repeats, no matter what tempo or signature its placed at.

This is your exact midi, I locked it in position so the events didn't move with tempo changes, then set the project to 6/8 and adjusted the tempo till it fit.

This is how it sounds to me, but maybe you had some other intention? It certainly fits 6 beats to the bar perfectly, allowing for unquantised keyboard playing.

and here's a link to how that sounds.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2avu ... kEyOFBHemc

[Nystul]

Pattern linked in first post is 12/8 (or 6/8, but it will confuse you more in 6/8). It's actually a kind of rumba pattern. (12 123 12 12 123) Since the accents are not evenly spaced, they are never all going to fit on strong beats of the grid. But writing it in 12/8 should give a consistent pattern from measure to measure. I agree with Jan about first eighth note being a pickup. I think reading as 11/8 is not including that pickup again at the end of measure, but from what I hear in the clip it always seems to be there.

[planetearth]

Ok I mapped your midi file to 6/8. Your playing is not exactly precise, the repeating phrase does not fall in exactly the same place each time it repeats, no matter what tempo or signature its placed at.

This is your exact midi, I locked it in position so the events didn't move with tempo changes, then set the project to 6/8 and adjusted the tempo till it fit.

This is how it sounds to me, but maybe you had some other intention? It certainly fits 6 beats to the bar perfectly, allowing for unquantised keyboard playing.

and here's a link to how that sounds.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2avu ... kEyOFBHemc

Wow, thanks! And thanks, JanCivil, Nystul, Shmoe and everyone else who tried to help with this.

I know my playing wasn't very precise; I should have mentioned that I had just developed and "learned how to play" the part maybe 5 minutes before I uploaded it. I didn't try to fix it, because I didn't even know what it was supposed to be, as far as a time signature. I'm a slightly better player than that (or maybe I just think I am).

At any rate, what Someone Called Simon has offered seems to be it, and it helps resolve the fact that I thought I "heard" 6/8 (or 3/4) in my head, but couldn't resolve it with what the DAW was showing me. For a short time, I also thought 7/8 might be the case, but only because of the off-beat notes I was playing.

(Simon Google said I had to ask permission to get the file from you, so you should see something about that soon.)

Thanks again, everyone, and the next time I need help resolving something like this, I'll be sure to play it the best I can before uploading it. I know that would have helped!

Steve

[someone called simon]

glad to have helped. I'd like to add my official knowledge of theory is really limited, it may may well be that 12/8 as Nystul described it is more accurate. but I could definitely hear it as 3, or 6, or 12, rather than 4 or 8, or something weirder.. i have it as 6 beats with some of the accents falling on the off beats.. see what i mean about limited knowledge?