KVR Audio

jtxx000 · Post by **jtxx000** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:12 pm

Ok, after playing with the demo of Podium for a while I don't see what makes it better than anything else... (except its stability) I like Tracktion's idea of everything on one screen and although it seems a little buggy I think I'm going to go with it.... but I'm going to play with Podium some more just to make sure.

garret · Post by **garret** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:02 pm

Also check out Cakewalk Home Studio. If by some chance you're a student, academic staff, or faculty, you can get it as cheap as $99 at studica.com.

Home Studio 2 is a rebranding of Home Studio 2004 with the Cakewalk VST adapter ($59).

It's a terrific starter system... you get most of the features of Sonar for dirt cheap.

http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/HomeStudio/

-Garret

jtxx000 · Post by **jtxx000** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:18 pm

One of the reasons I'm switching from Acid is because I don't like using VST adapters... also I tend to upgrade to the best product and I don't have $600.

anfmusic · Post by **anfmusic** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:02 pm

JTX, you said you wanted to switch from Acid because you don't like using VST adapters? What don't you like about VST plugins? To answer your other question, what differentiates Podium from the others, is the mix automation, controller recording and editing, 32 bit audio resolution, clean efficient user interface, and the coolest bounce feature I've seen. The ability to look at the main screen and see where every VST Instrument is assigned, especially when working with mult-timbral VSTs like Sampletank. I played with Traction too, and liked the layout and concept. But what bothered me with Tracktion had to do with the time between updates, especially if it was a needed update to fix a serious bug. It may be fixed by now, but at onetime, Tracktion was clipping the beginning when you would render your final mix to a .wav file. People had found workarounds, but I wasn't into finding a workaround for such a basic and needed feature. The vibe I got, from current Tracktion users, was that the updates slowed down a lot after Mackie bought Tracktion. Frits, the developer of Podium, just wouldn't let Podium sit with such a fundamental bug, he'd fix it instantly. I know, because I have first hand experience with him. There was a very minor bug with using mult-timbral VST and plugins. He had it fixed in 2 days. The other thing that surprises me is how bug free Podium is, good luck finding a bug, it's extremely hard to find them. I'm not trying to sway you either way, each host has its appeal to different users, for different reasons. I've tested all of them! The 2 that stand out to me are Podium and EnergyXT. I'm using Podium in my Production studio now and have had no problems with it at all. Just my opinion, for $90 it's a steal, as is EnergyXT for about $50!

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:02 pm

Tracktion, to me, is BY FAR the easiest and best sequencer. I've used most of the others, either ones I'd bought or at friends' houses, and they don't even come close.

Tracktion is key to my workflow now. Here are my reasons:

1. VERY stable. Anyone who says that Tracktion is generally buggy is kidding themselves. You may have problems, but the VAST majority don't. It's up to your system, not just the software. I could give you more than just my own testimony of how it changed people's creativity and workflow. But you won't find a more stable host(I'd dare say Podium is just as bad, or maybe it's just as good, but NO software is without bugs.)

2. Updates are still plenty. Of course they are not every day as they were before. And Podium will slow down also as the program gets more complex. I remember bug fixes coming out within an hour of a release. But the more that is added and the more users, and as Jules is working on T2, you won't get them as frequent. But the last few have been HUGE updates, fixing everything needed at the time.

3. Very dedicated and knowledgable user base. Always there to help me, either here or at the Mackie forum. These are loyal followers(of which I'm one) who will do what it takes to help each other and Jules.

4. Workflow, workflow, workflow!!!!! There simply is NO comparison. NONE. There is very little learning curve with Tracktion. But the feature set is vast enough to where you would think there would be. Only a general manual is needed. You can get going five minutes after downloading.

5. No better value for this price. For $80, you get more features than anything else in this range, and as many as some that are way more expensive. Tracktion was the FIRST(even before Logic) with Freeze, it has had full PDC for a long time, and has so much more than I could ask for.

Now, this is all strictly up to you. Whatever works for you is best. If you use Cubasis and it does what you need the quickest, than don't switch. Music is what matters, and when people buy your music, nobody is going to ask what program you used to record it.

Good luck to anyone looking to use Tracktion, or any sequencer. I hope you get your music the way you like. Cheers!

Koolkeys

jtxx000 · Post by **jtxx000** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:14 pm

hmmmm.... I just did an ad aware scan/reg cleaner/anti virus scan and now Tracktion doesn't seem to have any more stuck notes...

.... stupid m$...

sonicfire · Post by **sonicfire** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:16 pm

GO FOR LIVE!!! tried the demo and i can only say its fantastic!

AD80 · Post by **AD80** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:19 pm

I must be the only person in the world that finds Live's midi and effects handling and navigation to be clunky.

jtxx000 · Post by **jtxx000** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:24 pm

No way I'm downloading the demo... it's out of my price range. (same reason I haven't downloaded the demo for zeta yet)

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:39 pm

kagemusha wrote:And for all the people who complaining about lack of good bounce or freeze function in hosts they also schould check out Podium.

It's bounce concept is the most advanced.
It's difficult to explain if you don't know the Podium concept but simply put you can create bounce tracks (any track can made a bounce track) to wich you stream a midi, audio or any track which is recorded to that bounce track. The concequence is that you can decide for 5 tracks to bounce regions of them and it gets record to 5 different new tracks internally >>> without you have to record from your inputs or have to replace a file with a bounced file.
You draw the region you want to bounce in the bounce tracks and the corresponding subtrack will get recorded to it >> for every track it can be a region on different locations in time in one bouncecycle
Also if you re-record a small part of an already bounced track it gets placed inside the bounced audio. or you can cycle and it gets replaced in realtime

-Podium is highly organized and everything is a "tangile object" (audio, sequence, device, plugin etc etc). Everything becomes an object in a browser.
- parameter/mix automation is superior to most hosts eg no read/write and with spline curves
-Sticky notes
-Stable
-and a lot more

You have to study a few days on it but after you see the concept everything is easy and gives you a structural awareness. And what is a few days. It's quite alarming that people if they don't make it work after a few hours .. they give up.

Uh ... right!

I respect your experience, and on yours and others recommendation I shall certainly be adding Podium to my "watched" list so I can keep an eye on future developments!

Having said that, if Podium is to compete against (for example) Tracktion and the "big boys" its' advocates are going to have to explain in language simple enough for a "vacant lot" like me to understand!

... in answer to jtxx000 original question, I'll echo the zillion people who have already put in a plug for Tracktion

. As a professional musician and teacher I have to say it beats the living daylights out of anything else I've worked with in terms of getting the balance between deep features and usability right on.

I moved over from Cubase SX, and I've not even considered regretting it... the only thing I regret is that before I discovered Tracktion I made the mistake of forking out an offensive amount of money

for IMHO an unstable and - frankly - dull programme.

and what is it with Steinberg's pricing policy? I think that on the basis of their previous successes they charge twice what they should for Cubase SL, SX, HaLion, Wave Lab (£600 - you gotta be kidding!), Hypersonic ... need I go on

)

christianmusicmaker · Post by **christianmusicmaker** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:42 pm

jtxx000 wrote:No way I'm downloading the demo... it's out of my price range. (same reason I haven't downloaded the demo for zeta yet)

I think you will be better off with Tracktion. I think judging by your statements about your budget you will be far happier with Tracktion. Make no mistake, it is no cheap option!

Here is a quick example... you can have a 16bit / 24 bit or a 32 bit project in Tracktion you can only go up to 24 bit projects in Sonar which cost almost 10 times as much as Tracktion for instance.
I have used both.

There are things you can do with Racks in Tracktion that frankly speaking are just not possible with Cubase and Sonar. Jules simply designed it so well from the ground up.

Sonar for instance is a very complex package that gives you a very advanced and detailed level of midi functions and reading the 600+ page manual really is a mini course in audio and midi music production techniques itself.Once you master it though it can be brilliant and quite an end to end solution catering for just about anything you can think of and many other things you might not have considered.

But the better known brands like Sonar, Logic and Cubase also have a slower workflow but more features but cost up to 10 times as much as Tracktion.Sonar also uses a VST adapter which if I am not mistaken you would like to avoid using.

Tracktion picks up every VST I throw at it and is very stable indeed.It already has PDC and a freeze function.And little things like...
...the way just about everything in it can be resized by dragging

... VST and VSTi interfaces can be hidden when the mouse is not over them (a superb feature when switching between plugs)

...also there is a master fader option that produces a fade in curve on the time line (top of track view)both at the beginning and end of a track allowing you to fade in or out the whole song easily.

I could go on and on and on..but I think you get the picture.So many on this thread have recommended Tracktion this is not by chance.Also any problems you have can be addressed at any one of 3 forums in English.

http://forums.mackie.com/scripts/forum/ ... forum&f=17

http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=22

http://www.tracktionfaction.com

Tracktions popularity has even spread to Japan!

http://tufj.s31.xrea.com/

This application is going somewhere fast and all the people on this thread who have recommended it know that.They want to be able to upgrade to package that is alot cheaper than what is currently available with the major packages.

No one wants to spend money if they do not have to.Tracktion even at version 1 is a superb effort from Jules. I think all major bugs and frankly even most of the minor one's have been fixed. Once you get into the flow of this programme you will be amazed.

I advise you to take the time to read all the help files that come with Tracktion at least 2 or 3 times.There is so much you miss the first time you read it.

If you do have the budget and feel more features is what you want at the expense of the speed of your workflow then any of the big players have what you need.Sonar is a great package and I could just as well use it and nothing else for years!Many still use Logic 5.5 on the PC or even Cubase VST. A friend of mine is running a professional studio + label and has had radio airplay on TV exposure using Cubasis VST 4 (less than £50.00)to produce all his stuff!

Whatever suits your style and your budget...and I think Tracktion is the closest thing to what you are looking for and what is currently available within your budget.

TheWall · Post by **TheWall** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:26 pm

I think you will be better off with Tracktion. I think judging by your statements about your budget you will be far happier with Tracktion. Make no mistake, it is no cheap option!

This is very interesting point. However, IMHO, it's really crucial that the user doesn't choose a host as a compromise due to budget. Otherwise it's very likely, as we have seen quite often here, to cause some suffering in the long run. Based on jtxx000's posts, I kinda think he may be better off with HomeStudio.

I'm a big Tracktion fan, but I don't think it suits everyone, especially when they don't fall in love with it in the first place.

christianmusicmaker · Post by **christianmusicmaker** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:58 pm

TheWall wrote:
I think you will be better off with Tracktion. I think judging by your statements about your budget you will be far happier with Tracktion. Make no mistake, it is no cheap option!
This is very interesting point. However, IMHO, it's really crucial that the user doesn't choose a host as a compromise due to budget. Otherwise it's very likely, as we have seen quite often here, to cause some suffering in the long run. Based on jtxx000's posts, I kinda think he may be better off with HomeStudio.

I'm a big Tracktion fan, but I don't think it suits everyone, especially when they don't fall in love with it in the first place.

Home Studio is a very nice upgrade path to Sonar but ...

jtxx000:also I tend to upgrade to the best product and I don't have $600.

Maybe I misunderstood his statement but I thought he was saying here, was that he wants the top product that is available or flagship product. Tracktion falls into this category.

Home Studio provides an *upgrade path to Sonar* which is Cakewalks top end offering.

Again maybe I misunderstood what he said.

visa tapani · Post by **visa tapani** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:12 pm

koolkeys wrote:4. Workflow, workflow, workflow!!!!! There simply is NO comparison. NONE. There is very little learning curve with Tracktion. But the feature set is vast enough to where you would think there would be.

This is just bullshit. The workflow is not a feature of a product, but results from an interaction with a product and a user. Needless to say (or it should be at least), the workflow an user experiences with a particular program depends on the way this particular user works.

I for one come from a tracker paradigm and need to be able to do intricate midi- and sample editing. I tried the demo of Tracktion and was not impressed at all; the program seemed clumsy for my needs. So there's the WORKFLOW WITH NO COMPARISON for you.

Furthermore making a general statement of Tracktion that the "feature set is vast enough" is plain stupid. Vast enough for who? I know many people who really use the modularity of Logic or the deeper features of Cubase. Tracktion would most likely not be vast enough for them.

jtxx000 · Post by **jtxx000** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:16 pm

The only reason I have been critical of Tracktion is because I'm about to buy it and want to make sure it's what I want... I really do like it though, after the way it has everything on one page it's hard to go to anything else. I also like the way it handles recording where you can have more than one clip on each track and you can delete the source file from Tracktion, that was a big problem with Acid. Another thing I like is the routing of tracks to other tracks. In Acid you could only route tracks to busses and busses could not be routed to each other, but you can route tracks to tracks to tracks and so on as much as you want in T.

I need a good sequencer. pls help