I swear to god this is a joke.harryupbabble wrote: Ludwig reminds me most of Jimmy Page.
New study: Musical talent linked to "Open" personality
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- KVRian
- 805 posts since 18 Apr, 2011
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- KVRAF
- 7001 posts since 20 Mar, 2012 from Babbleon
It's not. Why would you think that? Although I can appreciate humour, Numanoid's, for example, I'm not a jokey person!!!stillshaded wrote:I swear to god this is a joke.harryupbabble wrote: Ludwig reminds me most of Jimmy Page.
To me, Ludwig's music gets really dynamic (Led Zeppelin's song Kashmir reminds me of Beethoven's 5th, riff-wise) and has melodies that lingers in my memory (Fur Elise reminds me of Led Zeppelin's song Thank You). Moonlight Sonata is also great and poppy to me. Also, Song of Joy.
Honestly, it's hard to remember any Mozart melodies and riffs that reminds me of anything in my CD and mp3 collection. I can't even remember one name of any Mozart piece at all. In your own collection can you find pop melodies and rock riffs that reminds you of Mozart's music?
Also, I can remember Bach's Toccata and Fugue. And Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring.
I guess my memory and taste is really bad when it comes to Mozart, mathy as he may be. Forgive me?
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- KVRAF
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
Confutatis from Mozart's Requiem mass is burned into my consciousness like a hot iron put it there. Lacrimosa also is a super hot piece of loud-soft-loud.
Similar earworm for the 25th Symphony in G minor; clearly anticipates Beethoven's 5th as well.
Who doesn't hum Eine Kleine Nachtmusik from time to time?
Elvira Madigan are the Alla Turca are pure ear candy too.
That's without even mentioning the opera arias, which had strong currency among regular people as pop tunes.
There is an odd irony in here, because Mozart was, at the time, known as the one person who could combine the Germanic capacity for structure with the Italian ease with melody. He'd toss out three or four memorable tunes per movement. In other words, he was sort of seen as a pretty melody-centric guy. Compare that with the inner workings of Beethoven's 9th, for example. Not a lot to hum there.
Bach is certainly known more for structure and (amazing) harmonic concepts than hummable melodies. Most of his pieces have practically zero exact repetition of themes. Baroque in general is considered a low point for hummable themes, whereas classical is supposed to be the era of super accessible "tunes." I'm not saying you're wrong, of course, it's a matter of individual differences in perception all the way, but it's idiosyncratic to say the least.
Similar earworm for the 25th Symphony in G minor; clearly anticipates Beethoven's 5th as well.
Who doesn't hum Eine Kleine Nachtmusik from time to time?
Elvira Madigan are the Alla Turca are pure ear candy too.
That's without even mentioning the opera arias, which had strong currency among regular people as pop tunes.
There is an odd irony in here, because Mozart was, at the time, known as the one person who could combine the Germanic capacity for structure with the Italian ease with melody. He'd toss out three or four memorable tunes per movement. In other words, he was sort of seen as a pretty melody-centric guy. Compare that with the inner workings of Beethoven's 9th, for example. Not a lot to hum there.
Bach is certainly known more for structure and (amazing) harmonic concepts than hummable melodies. Most of his pieces have practically zero exact repetition of themes. Baroque in general is considered a low point for hummable themes, whereas classical is supposed to be the era of super accessible "tunes." I'm not saying you're wrong, of course, it's a matter of individual differences in perception all the way, but it's idiosyncratic to say the least.
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- KVRAF
- 11162 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal
What?jopy wrote: Bach is certainly known more for structure and (amazing) harmonic concepts than hummable melodies. Most of his pieces have practically zero exact repetition of themes. Baroque in general is considered a low point for hummable themes, whereas classical is supposed to be the era of super accessible "tunes." I'm not saying you're wrong, of course, it's a matter of individual differences in perception all the way, but it's idiosyncratic to say the least.
I can give examples of Bach melodies enough to fill of box of CD's. The Aria from the Suite #3 in D comes immediately to mind. Almost the entire Suite #2. The Cantatas are full of beautiful arias (not to mention the chorales, but those melodies are not from him. Yeat he wrote fantastic variations over some chorales, like the cantata BWV 147 (the famous Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring), Cantata BWV 140 (Sleeper's Awake), Cantata BWV 93 (entirely based on the chorale Wer Nur Den Lieben Gott, of which he also composed several organ variations, all very melodic), Cantata BWV 156 (the opening Sinfonia is the famous Arioso, also used in the slow movement of the Harpsichord Concerto in G minor and in a violin concerto), the big Fantasia and Fugue in G minor for Organ, BWV 548, the Brandenburg concertos (the #2 is full of great melodies), the violin concertos, the flute sonatas (the B minor sonata for flute and obligato harpsichord has a great accompanied melody in the first movement). These were just quoted by heart in a hurry, but I could be here all night.
And what can we say of Vivaldi, Albinoni, Marcello, Telemann, Haendel, and so on, and so on? The baroque was full of great melodists (no wonder, if we remember all of them - except Bach - wrote operas, which have many moments of purely accompanied melody). Saying "baroque in general is considered a low point for hummable themes" is kind of hyperbolic.
Fernando (FMR)
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- KVRAF
- 11162 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal
Die Zauberflote has at least two memorable pieces: the Queen of the Night aria (which probably everybody knows, without even know it's from Mozart and from that opera), and the "pa pa papageno, pa pa papagena" duet.jopy wrote:Confutatis from Mozart's Requiem mass is burned into my consciousness like a hot iron put it there. Lacrimosa also is a super hot piece of loud-soft-loud.
Similar earworm for the 25th Symphony in G minor; clearly anticipates Beethoven's 5th as well.
Who doesn't hum Eine Kleine Nachtmusik from time to time?
Elvira Madigan are the Alla Turca are pure ear candy too.
That's without even mentioning the opera arias, which had strong currency among regular people as pop tunes.
Symphony #40 first movement is also super known, and super hummable (again probably everybody knows that). The sonata in A Major has not only the Rondo Alla Turca, but also the commonly known first movement.
Last edited by fmr on Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
I never had time for Mozart before I saw the production at school (CCM, a big opera factory) of Magic Flute, which blew me away. The singers were absolute world-class superstar talent and the production was novel, even psychedelic. The brilliance of this production took me to a place that the hometown orchestra and all didn't come close to doing.
I'm not an aficionado of the period. The melodiousness of it all isn't for me. Possibly a controversial thing to say, but my viewpoint is, this architectural, developmental arc - this musical rhetoric, the argument that's made - serves to scaffold what for me are not the most substantial kind of melodies in a lot of cases. The melody being often a signal or a feature of the harmonic scheme; as a tune in and of itself kind of more pedestrian. So Mozart and Haydn just before him are genii and manage almost a transcendence of the type. (Like in a cafe where there's 'classical music' piped in, most of it is not Mozart-quality and annoys me virtually as much as bad pop. It's the predictability of the V-I and the repetition.) I vastly prefer JS Bach as tunes and as form.
(I'm not explaining this all that well, I don't write about music often. I didn't know why I was not inclined much to the period, I came to a more verbal recognition of it (as I became more literate or really even more verbal), but this is one of those things like not liking sauerkraut that never changed for me.)
So I can see from a pop/accessible basis the Italianate opera sort of taste preference, standing on 'hummable tunes'. I had heard a lot of modern jazz before I heard very much classical music. In fact I was a musician before I heard very much of it. It wasn't the music in the house at all.
I'm not an aficionado of the period. The melodiousness of it all isn't for me. Possibly a controversial thing to say, but my viewpoint is, this architectural, developmental arc - this musical rhetoric, the argument that's made - serves to scaffold what for me are not the most substantial kind of melodies in a lot of cases. The melody being often a signal or a feature of the harmonic scheme; as a tune in and of itself kind of more pedestrian. So Mozart and Haydn just before him are genii and manage almost a transcendence of the type. (Like in a cafe where there's 'classical music' piped in, most of it is not Mozart-quality and annoys me virtually as much as bad pop. It's the predictability of the V-I and the repetition.) I vastly prefer JS Bach as tunes and as form.
(I'm not explaining this all that well, I don't write about music often. I didn't know why I was not inclined much to the period, I came to a more verbal recognition of it (as I became more literate or really even more verbal), but this is one of those things like not liking sauerkraut that never changed for me.)
So I can see from a pop/accessible basis the Italianate opera sort of taste preference, standing on 'hummable tunes'. I had heard a lot of modern jazz before I heard very much classical music. In fact I was a musician before I heard very much of it. It wasn't the music in the house at all.
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- KVRAF
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
Yeah, actually that was an overstatement on my part. I was thinking of "pop" melodies in the sense of "hummable," stuff that a person would hear once and immediately have stuck in their heads (as per a previous post where it was proposed that contemporary pop melody is more like Bach and that Mozart didn't have material that approximated popular tunes).fmr wrote:What?jopy wrote: Bach is certainly known more for structure and (amazing) harmonic concepts than hummable melodies. Most of his pieces have practically zero exact repetition of themes. Baroque in general is considered a low point for hummable themes, whereas classical is supposed to be the era of super accessible "tunes." I'm not saying you're wrong, of course, it's a matter of individual differences in perception all the way, but it's idiosyncratic to say the least.
I can give examples of Bach melodies enough to fill of box of CD's. The Aria from the Suite #3 in D comes immediately to mind. Almost the entire Suite #2. The Cantatas are full of beautiful arias (not to mention the chorales, but those melodies are not from him. Yeat he wrote fantastic variations over some chorales, like the cantata BWV 147 (the famous Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring), Cantata BWV 140 (Sleeper's Awake), Cantata BWV 93 (entirely based on the chorale Wer Nur Den Lieben Gott, of which he also composed several organ variations, all very melodic), Cantata BWV 156 (the opening Sinfonia is the famous Arioso, also used in the slow movement of the Harpsichord Concerto in G minor and in a violin concerto), the big Fantasia and Fugue in G minor for Organ, BWV 548, the Brandenburg concertos (the #2 is full of great melodies), the violin concertos, the flute sonatas (the B minor sonata for flute and obligato harpsichord has a great accompanied melody in the first movement). These were just quoted by heart in a hurry, but I could be here all night.
And what can we say of Vivaldi, Albinoni, Marcello, Telemann, Haendel, and so on, and so on? The baroque was full of great melodists (no wonder, if we remember all of them - except Bach - wrote operas, which have many moments of purely accompanied melody). Saying "baroque in general is considered a low point for hummable themes" is kind of hyperbolic.
I never meant to imply that there weren't many fantastic Baroque melodies, just that they weren't as regularly of the earworm variety that assumed center stage with Classical homophony or in Romantic lieder. But, having said that, your point is well taken, a comparatively lower proportion of melodic material that is hummable during the Baroque relative to the Classical is not an absolute dichotomy.