KVR Audio

dave dove · Post by **dave dove** » Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:19 pm

quick review:

http://audionewsroom.net/2015/11/valhal ... everb.html

dave

comfortablynick · Post by **comfortablynick** » Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:03 pm

valhallasound wrote:One of the engineers for Adele posted on Gearslutz. The reverb on the latest record is probably Bricasti, with Echoboy for predelay.

Interesting. It did sound like a plate to me too, but as you said, it could be a digital reverb with the top end rolled off. All examples I've heard of the Bricasti are nothing short of stunning, so it doesn't surprise me that it can sound that convincing. Additionally, I think the top tier ITB algorithmic 'verbs -- Valhalla, Exponential Audio, Acon Digital, etc. -- can also be pretty hard to tell apart from real acoustic environments (halls, chambers, plates, rooms) when the mixer wants that sound and knows how use the plugins.

Of course we've come a lot closer to realistic plate/chamber sound with the new ValhallaPlate. Add in all of the fantastic information and tips on the Valhalla DSP blog...well, all I can say is Sean continues to raise the bar. Can't wait for the next Valhalla plugin!

Nick

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:57 pm

Finally decided to buy ValhallaPlate. Another great Valhalla DSP product that fits nicely with ValhallaVintageVerb and ValhallaÜberMod that i already owned.
Somwhow the Valhalla plugins seem to be a kind of "must have".

I also got SKnote Verbtone and like it's sound. Anyway with some tweaking ValhallaPlate could sound extremely close while it offers different options not possible with Verbtone.

Verbtone is based on a custom made Plate Reverb created by the develeper of the plugin so it is more or less limited to the sound of that plate while there are two knobs to slightly adjust the tone of the plate (more or les similar to adjsuting the size and thickness of the plate). It also includs some other controls not possible wit ha real plate. Anyway the differences in sound that are possible with those two knobs are not as big as those in the different modes at ValhallaPlate.

I like that ValhallaPlate has all controls on one page to keep it as simple as possible while it still offers enough options to make it versatile.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:12 pm

Just saw this thread and heard about Valhalla Plate for the first time. Purchased immediately - no need to demo!

valhallasound · Post by **valhallasound** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:00 pm

comfortablynick wrote:
valhallasound wrote:One of the engineers for Adele posted on Gearslutz. The reverb on the latest record is probably Bricasti, with Echoboy for predelay.
Interesting. It did sound like a plate to me too, but as you said, it could be a digital reverb with the top end rolled off. All examples I've heard of the Bricasti are nothing short of stunning, so it doesn't surprise me that it can sound that convincing. Additionally, I think the top tier ITB algorithmic 'verbs -- Valhalla, Exponential Audio, Acon Digital, etc. -- can also be pretty hard to tell apart from real acoustic environments (halls, chambers, plates, rooms) when the mixer wants that sound and knows how use the plugins.

For me, it is all about the top end frequency response. This is why I was thinking "plate" for this example.

Most digital reverbs, even the super well regarded "classics," tend to have too much decay time for the high frequencies. The older digital units ran at a lower sampling rate, which tended to reduce the obnoxious hissing sound you would get from high frequency transients. For most modern digital reverbs, you need to bring the HF tone/eq way down, preferably with a gentle slope (1st order works best for a natural room sound).

Plates are different. A good plate will have a fairly short decay for high frequencies, that gradually transitions to a longer decay for the frequencies that determine pitch (i.e. low freqs to upper midrange). The high frequencies are still in the signal, but the DECAY is short enough that the transients don't turn into hiss - they get out of the way, so that you can hear the pitch of the signal in the reverb. This is something that I spent a lot of time on in ValhallaPlate. The high frequency decay should be fairly short, but still be really smooth, without metallic coloration.

Of course we've come a lot closer to realistic plate/chamber sound with the new ValhallaPlate. Add in all of the fantastic information and tips on the Valhalla DSP blog...well, all I can say is Sean continues to raise the bar. Can't wait for the next Valhalla plugin!

Thanks!

Sean Costello

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:43 pm

valhallasound wrote:Plates are different. A good plate will have a fairly short decay for high frequencies, that gradually transitions to a longer decay for the frequencies that determine pitch (i.e. low freqs to upper midrange). The high frequencies are still in the signal, but the DECAY is short enough that the transients don't turn into hiss - they get out of the way, so that you can hear the pitch of the signal in the reverb. This is something that I spent a lot of time on in ValhallaPlate. The high frequency decay should be fairly short, but still be really smooth, without metallic coloration.

I'm finding Valhalla Plate to sound gorgeous... from really short decay times to long ones... it just works!

Great job!!

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:45 am

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deastman · Post by **deastman** » Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:02 am

Okay, I have to admit something. All reverb sounds pretty much the same to me. I mean, I use mostly VVV and now Valhalla Plate on almost everything. I use Strymon BigSky add my main hardware reverb. I have several spring tanks for my modular. And I have a bazillion other reverbs both in software and hardware which I rarely use. And my favorite ones do sound great, no doubt about it. But in reality, it all mostly sounds like subtly different flavors of the same thing to me. I'm constantly amazed by Sean's obsessive attention to detail and his ability to focus in on these subtle differences. It isn't that I can't hear any differences at all, it's just that they don't mean much to me. When it comes right down to it, I'm mostly fine with any old reverb. I know that is sacrilege around these parts, but there it is...

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:05 am

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pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:26 am

deastman wrote:Okay, I have to admit something. All reverb sounds pretty much the same to me. I mean, I use mostly VVV and now Valhalla Plate on almost everything. I use Strymon BigSky add my main hardware reverb. I have several spring tanks for my modular. And I have a bazillion other reverbs both in software and hardware which I rarely use. And my favorite ones do sound great, no doubt about it. But in reality, it all mostly sounds like subtly different flavors of the same thing to me. I'm constantly amazed by Sean's obsessive attention to detail and his ability to focus in on these subtle differences. It isn't that I can't hear any differences at all, it's just that they don't mean much to me. When it comes right down to it, I'm mostly fine with any old reverb. I know that is sacrilege around these parts, but there it is...

That is especially why I like the approach Sean is taking... asking the question what parameters can go away and still get the job done... V Plate has only 12 and it is great sounding and fast and easy to use. It does not invite hours of subtle tweaking which is the best feature of all!

On my next machine I wont even install my various other reverbs... just the Plate and Vintage Verb

I think that attention to detail you mention is also what helps to refine the plugin down to a simpler number of parameters which ends up with a plugin that just sounds great and I can get on with actually making music.

The new Plate is my favorite yet... the GUI is so simple and easy on the eyes and the knobs are a good size so no need to precisely grab small controls.

donato · Post by **donato** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:35 am

deastman wrote:Okay, I have to admit something. All reverb sounds pretty much the same to me.

I feel the same in the way I am so far from an expert it's

. The Valhalla stuff in the sense of Shimmer and Room are clearly different, UberMod being a different beast (I sold echoboy after having both for some time, I still yearn for a big Moogerfooger 104 after owning one and having a minifooger which is a mild disappointment because of limitations...I digress). Vintage Verb despite the hype I just didn't really get. It all seemed to have a blanket over it I didn't gel with. I just preferred Room in pretty much all cases (at different settings). So I sold it. I forgot to erase it and switched from all software synths to all analog hardware and tried it out for shits and giggles one day out of curiosity and it sounded brilliant. I can't explain that one. Will have to purchase again. And now this. I've always been attracted to the plate presets on the other V. stuff even if not exactly plates (explained earlier by S.C.). It sounds great. Agree with most that if you went spring reverb and/or Roland tape it would be a huge seller and auto buy. I wonder which would be more difficult to emulate (if it makes a difference?). I would guess spring since it seems to introduce something quite a bit different?

foosnark · Post by **foosnark** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:04 pm

For those who think reverb pretty much sounds the same, try running just a click or some tight dry drums through different reverbs with different settings. Differences are much easier to hear that way, and once you get it you'll notice with other material too. Except maybe for pads with slow attack and release times.

I used to think of reverb almost entirely in terms of tails, but the attack is extremely important too.

caulixtla · Post by **caulixtla** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:15 pm

The "short click" test is a well known reverb acid test. The other reverb torture test I like to make is to run a slow filtered synthesizer sound with a lot of modulation in it; sounds like that are good at catching metallic artifacts in the diffusion filter or ringing in long reverb tails. I have a downloadable recording of this reverb acid test: https://soundcloud.com/caulixtla/reverb-acid-test

Valhalla’s reverbs, no surprise, sound really great with this test, with no ringing in the tail; the vintage verb can have metallic artifacts, because that’s what even the best 1980s digital reverbs had, but those can be removed by lowering diffusion (with Valhalla Plate, Sean figured out how to quickly build up modal density without metallic coloration. Before you ask, it’s a trade secret.)

Krakatau · Post by **Krakatau** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:23 pm

foosnark wrote: Except maybe for pads with slow attack and release times.

By experience, you won't need much density in reverbs for such kind of envelopes, even early reflexions in themselves or some complex delay lines can do a good job in the case instead

foosnark · Post by **foosnark** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:00 pm

Krakatau wrote:
foosnark wrote: Except maybe for pads with slow attack and release times.
By experience, you won't need much density in reverbs for such kind of envelopes, even early reflexions in themselves or some complex delay lines can do a good job in the case instead

Right, I usually prefer something like Ubermod or Echobode for that anyway, if they need anything at all.

ValhallaPlate Updated to Version 1.5.0