Is it necessary to design your own sounds?

[vurt]

now i am worried

[The_Hidden_Goose]

If someone produces a sample library/drumloop set/bank of presets/or woteva prefabricated soundsource....they're giving everyone who uses it license to use the sounds.

I have no guilt using presets, altho I usually tinker and create my own sounds.

I use lots of samples, and do the same to them - but I don't feel too guilty about not twisting them around.

The only problem with EVERYONE using presets is that music starts to sound strangely familiar all the time. Which we don't want.......

...do we?

I berloody don't! 8¬P

[CypherOne]

If someone produces a sample library/drumloop set/bank of presets/or woteva prefabricated soundsource....they're giving everyone who uses it license to use the sounds.

I have no guilt using presets, altho I usually tinker and create my own sounds.

I use lots of samples, and do the same to them - but I don't feel too guilty about not twisting them around.

The only problem with EVERYONE using presets is that music starts to sound strangely familiar all the time. Which we don't want.......

...do we?

I berloody don't! 8¬P

I think we're all saying pretty much the same thing. Presets are okay, tweaking is fun and useful to make the sounds not too recognisable and sound design a pain in the arse but good for you if you can

[monsterbeetle]

my opinion on this question is that we are far more limited in the melodic universe than we are in the raw waveform design universe, the tempered scale only has 12 grades, the combinations might be infinite, the are more limited especially when it come down a a particular style of music, all the viable combinations of notes/tempo/chords have already been discovered (especially in stuff like rock music, which started recycling istself and has continuously been doing so from the late seventies)

I'm more and more conviced that melody is secondary to rythm, and that inharmonic music (without falling into easy done noise-like music) still has some more to offer. So yes sound design is cool, but not necessarily with soft/hardware synths...

[paradiddle]

Everybody tweaks their own sounds anyway. It's really a personal thing and it's not exclusive to electronic music. Drummers do it, bass/guitar do it with amps, effects ect. I think that's what defines the individuality of every musicians around the globe.

[cloudspine]

In the end, it doesn't matter whether you use pre-made presets or not... It's the song that matters...

As for me, I tweak presets, sometimes to a completely different sound, and/or use a lot of processing afterwards...
I only use a few synths in my music, and about the only one where I start from "scratch" is Metaphysical Function. Well, sort of from scratch, if randomizing to get something basic, new and appealing can fall into that category...

As for percussion, I record my own hand-drums and percussion, sometimes traditional rhymths, but more often my own.
I do use one-shots from time to time to manually replace the beats in a groove I recorded (a long and tedious, but worthwhile, process), if it sounds ugly after noise reduction and whatnot. Quite necessary for shakers...

[whyterabbyt]

I only use presets, but on the other hand I hand-modify my VSTs with a hex editor....

(or maybe not)

[tee boy]

The question is "Is it necessary to design your own sounds?" The answer is no.

Beethoven didn't design he own sounds at the basic level. Sound design is not composition. It can definitely enhance composition, but it isn't composition. If you're great at sound design, do it. The tradition is to use great sounds irrespective of who creates them. I could spend the rest of my life perfecting my sound design technique and probably won't become half as good as someone such as Eric Persing--why waste my time. My interest is in using the sounds. Sometimes I do make sounds for very special purposes, but not as a dogmatic act. How many create there own samples? When you want an orchestral sound, do you hire and record all those instrumentalist? How many create there own instruments? The important question is not whether you made the sound, but is the particular sound what you want.

Orchestration is sound design, but at a higher hierarchical level. Did you create the individual component sounds? No. Did you create the overall sound? Yes. If you use Albino to create a sound, why didn't you create a new instrument? If you did make the instrument, why didn't you design the circuitry code for the individual oscillators and filters? Why didn't you create the programming language that you used? There is no end to this "creative" process, decisions must be made. Sometimes,--no, all the time, it is necessary to delegate responsibility for the good of the project. The "I made it all myself" syndrome is rather infantile and usually results in mediocrity. We've all experienced piss poor singers who insist on singing their own otherwise good songs--is this music or ego?

Sorry mate, but i think you are so wrong here its untrue. Sound design has everything to do with composition, since it involves developing timbral elements. I mean, say you had a huge subby bass drop in your tune, would it sound the same played with a little wet fart of a saw wave? Errr, no it wouldnt. The pitch and duration or the note would be pretty much irrelevant, with the timbre being the only element supplying emotional impact. Electronic music is based on this type of concept. Listen to some techno music - its nothing but a 4/4 kick with some crunched up loops over the top. But its not the traditional composition elements which give this music its power... its all in the sound design!

Also, to say that composers have no input into the instruments used is a little off the money. Didnt Mozart pretty much invent the modern clarinet as a lead instrument? Didnt Cage develop the treated Piano idea in an attempt to bring new timbres to his music? Is this not sound design? Give Beethoven 'Kyma' and tell me he wouldnt make new sounds.

Finally, i think making the comparison between programming sounds and coding oscillators is a bit ott. Coding stuff may be considered part of sound design by some, but it is way beyond anything that could be considered part of composition. Creating new sounds to give your music a unique edge, cant really be compared with coding a filter algorithms now can it! One is design aimed toward artistic expression, the other is design in an strictly engineering context.

Now, Im not stating an opinion either way in this post. Im not saying that you have to make all your own sounds! All i am doing is argueing a point which i feel has merit. If you acknowledge that timbre plays a massive part in modern music then, then you also have to acknowledge the importance of sound design.

[Meffy]

Finally, i think making the comparison between programming sounds and coding oscillators is a bit ott. Coding stuff may be considered part of sound design by some, but it is way beyond anything that could be considered part of composition. Creating new sounds to give your music a unique edge, cant really be compared with coding a filter algorithms now can it! One is design aimed toward artistic expression, the other is design in an strictly engineering context.

The following is far-fetched, which shows that your point is generally true. But I offer this counter-example: Csound.

In Csound, you design the sound-generating apparatus and the musical score to be performed... using text files. =:-O There are GUIs and such, but at the heart of Csound, it's all interpretation of text files. Csound is generally used for the most academic kind of music, mostly abstract soundscapes and such. Not that it can't be used for just about any kind of music, just that its roots are in academia.

I think it's safe to say that 1% or fewer of KvR members use Csound. :-) (Yes, I'm one, but haven't done a lot with it lately.) This is very much the exception, which is another way of saying that for the majority of cases I agree with your point.

Meffy

P.S.: Even in Csound, it's not uncommon to use "instrument" source code files from the library of existing ones designed by experts. So the "preset versus homemade patch" split exists even here. :-)

[bugs]

Mozart did use the new clarinet (a machine for making clarinet sounds), but he didn't invent it or design it. Neither did he say "I can't use violins, everybody uses violins." Composers have always used the lastest technology, however, someone else usually did the design work. The composers of today do use sequencers, synths, etc, but very few are involved with the nitty-gritty of the design. Timbre does equal sound design for sure, but only at the most basic level. The importance of sound design is to give composers good basic material with which to work--whether it be a new instrument like Albino or the clarinet, or a new new way of playing it, like a patch or what clarinetists call extended technique. The real work of the composer happens at the top end of the hierachy--general ideation, structural design, motion design, etc -- the broad strokes. Basic sound design happens at the very bottom of the hierarchy -- at the atom level. Perhaps someday we will have effective tools to do sound design quickly--I mean very quickly, like in seconds, but right now it is neither cost effective or efficent.

The mention of academic composers is an important point. A better name for them might be researchers in the art of composition. They produce very little music (they don't have time with all the sound design work) and no one, not even their family, is willing to listen to what they produce. I just returned from a conference on new music composition where I was an invited composer. I was only one who had a new piece for the occasion, all the rest were too involved with their research and teaching duties. Bless them, they are doing some good work which may be of some use in new next ten to twenty years, but to call them active composers is a bit of a stretch. The movement among actual composers here in the USA is out of the university simply because of this problem. Basic sound design is really the realm of theorists and engineers who are quite comfortable in the academic environment. Composition is an applied art, not theoretical. Composers at universities is an anomaly of the twentieth century.

The control we have now as composers over the musical process is astounding compared to even twenty years ago, but we a long way from being able to control everything in the process at the micro level. Our job is management, bringing the parts together--like an architect or a film director. There is no way in the near future that composition will be about auteur production at all levels. There will alway be a certain degree of the division of labor concept--its how things get done. We're not talking refrigerator art here, we're talking high art--an actual contribution to civilization and the culture.

[DevonB]

Now, Im not stating an opinion either way in this post. Im not saying that you have to make all your own sounds! All i am doing is argueing a point which i feel has merit. If you acknowledge that timbre plays a massive part in modern music then, then you also have to acknowledge the importance of sound design.

Yes, the sound design is important, but the creator doens't necessarily have to be the musician. Both aspects are of two seperate creative realms, and to me, you don't have to possess BOTH skills to be a great musician. Do what you do best. If that's sound design, writing music, production, recording, mastering, and everything else in between, then you're one cool cat. If you're only good at writing melodies, or only good at creating patches, then give that person the respect they deserve too.

Devon

[Melodialworks]

Yes, the sound design is important, but the creator doens't necessarily have to be the musician. Both aspects are of two seperate creative realms, and to me, you don't have to possess BOTH skills to be a great musician.

Thank you, Devon! That is a very simple yet powerful way of expressing this point of view. I completely agree.

[tee boy]

Now, Im not stating an opinion either way in this post. Im not saying that you have to make all your own sounds! All i am doing is argueing a point which i feel has merit. If you acknowledge that timbre plays a massive part in modern music then, then you also have to acknowledge the importance of sound design.

Yes, the sound design is important, but the creator doens't necessarily have to be the musician. Both aspects are of two seperate creative realms, and to me, you don't have to possess BOTH skills to be a great musician. Do what you do best. If that's sound design, writing music, production, recording, mastering, and everything else in between, then you're one cool cat. If you're only good at writing melodies, or only good at creating patches, then give that person the respect they deserve too.

Devon

Oh mate, believe me i mean no one any disrespect. And i agree totally that people should try to excel at what they're good at. I guess i just have more respect for people who can do the lot. I find music thats been written, performed, designed, recorded, mixed etc by the same person really has a personal, unique quality that just cant be replicated by a group of anonomous strangers. The kind of musician who can conceptualise sounds and music, then make it a reality has my upmost respect! This is very much the type of musican i aspire to be.

[foosnark]

Sound design is not composition

Composition is sound design.

You can't play Bach's "Tocatta & Fugue in D-Minor" on a tuba or a mandolin.

You can't play Mozart's "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik" on the glockenspiel. (You can play some of the notes but it won't be the same piece of music.)

You can't play Aphex Twin's "Bucephalous Bouncing Ball" with your left hand and your right armpit and a dog whistle.


That said, I don't see anything wrong with presets, except sometimes you need something else. The cool thing about electronic music is we have much more freedom to explore sound. But some people can take some of the least "expressive" instruments ever invented and write damn good music for them -- that's pretty much what baroque music was about.