KVR Audio

Equilibrium · Post by **Equilibrium** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:34 pm

I was thinking about this... Can you really make decent music without being an instrumentalist? If you make music, isn't a fundamental aspect to have practical and theoretical knowledge?

With someone like Squarepusher it is really obvious that he plays instruments. There are loads of undergrounds acts though that just don't seem to even be able to make a melody. I think that I can tell with a producer whether they play drums or not, there just is a difference. I feel that's why people like Chemical Brothers, Fat Boy Slim, DJ Shadow, Dj Premier and Squarepusher are in another league as such, they understand drums and therefore make better beats than Roni Size, Goldie and others...

I dunno I just see if anyone is feeling me on this one? I'm not saying that people should be Miles Davis or Steve Gadd but some basic instrumental skills aren't that hard to aquire and to my mind are essential.

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:39 pm

t-willy · Post by **t-willy** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:40 pm

yes

lates

t-willy

crazed one · Post by **crazed one** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:44 pm

I think it's an advantage in some cases having no real education on an instrument or previous experience. You don't have a set style necessarily and because of this you have a lot of experimentation and the possibility of some very original sounds. Just my opinion.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:46 pm

I don't think you have to play an instrument, but I write all my songs so I can play my guitar...so for me yes, for others no.

t-willy · Post by **t-willy** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:46 pm

crazed one wrote:I think it's an advantage in some cases having no real education on an instrument or previous experience. You don't have a set style necessarily and because of this you have a lot of experimentation and the possibility of some very original sounds. Just my opinion.

i played piano and trumpet in grade school now i play rock/metal - go to your slayer concert

lates

t-willy

Equilibrium · Post by **Equilibrium** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:51 pm

I just struggle to think of many quality electronic musicians who put out really good tunes and dont' play an instrument. I don't think that Dilinja plays any instrument, but he is the only one I know of.

I'm just tierd of music slipping more and more into basic territory. How are you supposed to have a large knowledge of chords if you can't play them?

CypherOne · Post by **CypherOne** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:52 pm

Squarpusher - messy noise.
Fatboy Slim - now where did I put my 'Big Book Of Big Beat', I need that formula again.
Goldie - short lived genius. I don't mean he's dead or owt, but Timeless is exactly that..the rest was bollocks but hey, I'd be happy if I could make Timeless.
Roni Size - New Forms is still an incredible album, does sound a little dated now, so errm I guess it's not timeless...

For the record I don't play any instrument (probably obvious

)

cheers.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:55 pm

t-willy wrote:
crazed one wrote:I think it's an advantage in some cases having no real education on an instrument or previous experience. You don't have a set style necessarily and because of this you have a lot of experimentation and the possibility of some very original sounds. Just my opinion.
i played piano and trumpet in grade school now i play rock/metal - go to your slayer concert

lates

t-willy

I played trumpet in grade school as well, could of been the most damaging thing I did musically because I was really bad. When I also joined little league it was clear I wasn't gonna be a baseball player. When I was 12 (1971) my parents bought me a cheap accoustic. The thing was with my past history on trumpet and my best friend playing sappy christmas songs and down in the valley crap, my mother wasn't impressed with my guitar teacher. She though was taking me for a ride because he was teaching me blues bars, riffs, stones songs...not real music. So then all the drive came from within. I took theory in college, and self studied from there (not self taught I hate that expression) But there was always a little self doubt from my lack of ability with a trumpet...was...not is...

crazed one · Post by **crazed one** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:55 pm

t-willy wrote:
i played piano and trumpet in grade school now i play rock/metal - go to your slayer concert

lates

t-willy

I will.

SLAYER!!

Equilibrium · Post by **Equilibrium** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:55 pm

Roni Size and Goldie I was using as examples of people who I believe don't play instruments. Squarepusher, regardless of you opinion of his sound (I'm not that crazy about it) he is a league of his own in terms of technical tallent, no one comes close.

griels · Post by **griels** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:11 pm

CypherOne wrote:Squarpusher - messy noise.

Nonsense. Check out 'Hard Normal Daddy' - an incredible amalgam of breakbeat, complex song structures and excellent playing. Also, I think 'Do You Know Squarepusher' (the single) is an amazing piece of beat science...

CypherOne wrote: Roni Size - New Forms is still an incredible album, does sound a little dated now, so errm I guess it's not timeless...

I always hated that. I did like a few things by Roni Size like Music Box, which seemed to have some depth. Maybe 'Heroes' on that album was OK but the rest of it was an unimaginitive dirge. The beats were repetitive and the structure basic. I'd favour Two Pages by 4 Hero any day. Much more depth and structure to my mind.

CypherOne wrote: For the record I don't play any instrument (probably obvious )

cheers.

Fine by me... I play keyboards, but I don't think it's necessary at all to play an instrument or sing to make good music. I love some of Aphex or Luke Vibert's work (especially as Plug), but I don't think they have any great dexterity on the keyboards, as far as I know.

CypherOne · Post by **CypherOne** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:13 pm

okay.

Muff Wiggler · Post by **Muff Wiggler** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:14 pm

uh

dj shadow makes better beats than Roni Size?

uh

what makes a beat 'better'?

and doesn't dj shadow not make beats at all, simply put other people's records on a record player and play them?

(albeit a few at a time, with silly little mixes etc.)

but I don't think he's making beats, whereas Goldie and Roni Size were some of the first to usher in some of the frehest new types of beats anyone had heard in a long time (too bad it got stale quick and they couldn't keep creating 'new forms' (pun intended)) at least they were making their beats themselves instead of just slipping other people's records on.

A good record collection and a pair of 12's doesn't make you a musician. Ouch, I'm-a-gonna-get-flamed now

Equilibrium · Post by **Equilibrium** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:35 pm

what makes a beat 'better'?

Same thing that makes a Mozart melody better than a Dj Krust one. Shadow took hip hop to another level regardless of how he 'made' the beats. Roni Size got a load of people to help him on his first album then couldn't follow it up. Clive Deamer is responsible for "Roni Size's" beats. But yeah, Dj Shadow's beats are better than Roni Size, you either realise that or you don't (Regardless of who you prefer).

Do you have to play an instrument?