Muon Software

oversoul · Post by **oversoul** » Thu Jul 25, 2002 9:58 pm

Muon,

Any chance of a TDM/RTAS/HDTM or even Direct-Connect version of Tau Pro, Electron, and ESPECIALLY M-Drive!?!?! I see that Native Instruments is taking strides to help pioneer the ProTools virtual synth paradigm by releasing Pro52, B4, and Battery TDM, while the rest of their products are all Direct Connect compatible. Ideally, I'd like to upgrade to Logic running on a ProTools equipped G4 under TDM (see Chemical Brothers' "Come with Us"). But I can't imagine the jump without the Muon gear! Any suggestions.

Note: this also goes for Bitshift Phatmatik PRO and rgaAudio Pentagon I, if you're listening.

Thanks and keep up the great work.

spectrum · Post by **spectrum** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 1:37 am

At Spectrasonics, all our virtual instruments ship with VST and RTAS in the same package.

However, for the Logic/TDM combo rig you are talking about, the main thing you need is the ESB system bridge from emagic. Then you use the VSTs.

Need loads of RAM though!

spectrum
(check out our RTAS instruments at www.spectrasonics.net )

oversoul · Post by **oversoul** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 1:47 am

Thanks for the tip (plug?). Actually, you can run Logic directly under TDM OR using VST with System Bridge. Obviously, it would be ideal to have all your instruments and plugs true TDM for this.

System Bridge is a pain (having both Logic AND ProTools open at the same time), so I'd love to see as many companies offer TDM/HTDM/RTAS versions as possible.

thanks...

oversoul · Post by **oversoul** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 2:06 am

I tried to find a screenshot - no luck.

Here is the clip from their press release:

"Logic 5.0 TDM Support

In addition to the built-in effect system, Digidesign's TDM system for ProTools hardware is completely supported (Mac OS), including Surround. Depending on the configuration, up to 64 audio tracks and 64 busses are available. TDM plug-ins from all major developers can be used and fully automated. I/O inserts even allow the integration of external audio effect processors."

my "dream" system, as long as their are TDM virtual synths (like NI's) available...

doctormix · Post by **doctormix** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 2:33 am

AUTO-ADMIN: Non-MP3, WAV, OGG, SoundCloud, YouTube, Vimeo, Twitter and Facebook links in this post have been protected automatically. Once the member reaches 5 posts the links will function as normal.

Another RTAS istrument just released is SampleTank. Check it out at:

http://www.sampletank.com (http://www.sampletank.com)

Or ask for more info in the forum here@ KvR:

http://www.kvr-vst.com/cgi-bin/ultimate ... ysPrune=20 (http://www.kvr-vst.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=9;DaysPrune=20)

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

DJ REMIDI · Post by **DJ REMIDI** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 2:36 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr />oversoul: my "dream" system, as long as their are TDM virtual synths (like NI's) available...
<hr /></blockquote>This would be your "dream" virtual synth then <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

Access Virus Indigo TDM

I would LOVE to have this beast.

oversoul · Post by **oversoul** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 3:17 am

EXACTLY! Imagine running that beast, plus the original Virus TDM, all the NI stuff, and say EXS24 TDM under Logic. Amazing! AND be able to put plugs like Lexicon TDM verb or TCWorks TDM verb on them. (droool...droool...)

I know in general that the TDM stuff is ridiculously over-priced, but we're talking an entire pro studio on one computer...gives me shivers. I'm amazed there's not more enthusiasm for this - I suppose it's the cost <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

Now if eMagic could just get VST and TDM to live happily together without the damn ESB bridge or Direct-Connect. (I suppose this is what Digi is trying to do with HTDM).

Thanks REMIDI (cool name, btw)

Muon Software Ltd · Post by **Muon Software Ltd** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 3:20 am

True-blue TDM requires recoding the DSP core for fixed-point and targetting a whole different kind of processor altogether. At the moment that's something that we don't really want to get into (though in future with exciting things like Chameleon coming onstream it might become more attractive).

However, there are a number of Digidesign technologies for float-point DSP types like ourselves including HTDM and RTAS. If Digidesign were to part with a Dev Kit we'd be there like a shot. Perhaps if we catch up with them at NAMM or Frankfurt next year who knows....

Cheers
Dave

oversoul · Post by **oversoul** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 3:27 am

oh sh**t!

I just saw the Sample Tank TDM post - hopefully a sign of more TDM things to come - thanks doctormix!

Dave (muon) - if these other developers (NI,IK) are releasing TDM versions, then you're saying they're recoding each from scratch?! sounds hard to believe. I'm no coding expert, but wouldn't some floating-point conversion methodology exist by now?

In the mean time, I suppose I'll have to record my Tau Pro basses seperately and import them...

thanks to all

spectrum · Post by **spectrum** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 9:14 am

I think you are mistaken...far as I know Sampletank is RTAS only, same as our Spectrasonics instruments, same as NI's stuff.

TDM is way harder to do and it's very old technology. The reason Access can do it is because they use the same Motorola DSP chips in the Virus/Indigo itself.

spectrum

oversoul · Post by **oversoul** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 9:43 am

I stand corrected - Sample Tank is only RTAS, while the NI Studio collection is HTDM or RTAS. I suppose the verbage used in many of these press releases is a bit confusing, "use it on your TDM system", meaning RTAS on a TDM system, not that the synths themselves are TDM. Even the screen shots show a "TDM" tag above the synth:
http://www.nativeinstruments.de/index.p ... lection_us

I'd be more than happy to check out Spectrasonic products - is there a demo or lite version? I honestly haven't heard much vs. Sonic Synth or other similar products. I guess my question now is whether or not you can even run RTAS under Logic on a ProTools TDM system...I don't see why not.

Btw, TDM "old technology"? C'mon, I challenge you to find a top 20 song out right now that wasn't recorded, edited, mixed or master with ProTools. Old (fixed point?) perhaps, but it's obviously the standard for a reason (and it's VERY solid vs. host plugs). Dissing another company's technology to promote your own isn't going to endear you to anyone. But kudos to Spectra for recognizing the importance of RTAS/TDM.

I digress...I think most people who've experienced ProTools would agree, "once you try it, you never want to go back to anything else." I'd just love to see all the great VSTi's featured on this site come along for the ride.

The first developer to make a universal VSTi wrapper for RTAS/TDM wins! (and NO not that awful DirectConnect nonesense).

Thanks.

spectrum · Post by **spectrum** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 3:21 pm

HTDM is almost exactly the same as RTAS...it doesn't use the TDM hardware. There are only some minor differences..ie using it with aux channels,etc.

I think you got the wrong idea from my post. I'm not promoting my own technology or platform....we support EVERY platform equally (Mac/Windows/VST/RTAS/MAS) and we are in the process of getting HTDM going...I was just pointing out some of the technical issues that make it difficult to make a TDM synth....there's a lot of problems because it was not designed to do it.

You don't have to convince me about the acceptance of TDM rigs and their reliability....I make records on Logic/TDM rigs myself. What's great about TDM is that it is non-host processor based, so it is very reliable. But it IS a very old standard (late 80's), that was never designed to do real-time synthesis. VST2.0 is only a better standard of synths, because it was designed from the ground up for virtual instruments.

There will never be a VST/TDM wrapper because it is not technically possible because of what the guys from Muon explaine.the coding is totally different.

A VST/RTAS or VST/HTDM wrapper is possible, but won't ever be released because Digi is against it. So they won't allow this to come out politically unless they change their policy, which is highly unlikely.

Also, RTAS doesn NOT run on a Logic/TDM rig, even with ESB...but VST plugs do.

For virtual instruments, VST with ESB is the only way to go with a Logic/TDM rig. Works pretty well....but all of that does tax the computer pretty heavily.

spectrum

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by oversoul:
I stand corrected - Sample Tank is only RTAS, while the NI Studio collection is HTDM or RTAS. I suppose the verbage used in many of these press releases is a bit confusing, "use it on your TDM system", meaning RTAS on a TDM system, not that the synths themselves are TDM. Even the screen shots show a "TDM" tag above the synth:
http://www.nativeinstruments.de/index.p ... lection_us

I'd be more than happy to check out Spectrasonic products - is there a demo or lite version? I honestly haven't heard much vs. Sonic Synth or other similar products. I guess my question now is whether or not you can even run RTAS under Logic on a ProTools TDM system...I don't see why not.

Btw, TDM "old technology"? C'mon, I challenge you to find a top 20 song out right now that wasn't recorded, edited, mixed or master with ProTools. Old (fixed point?) perhaps, but it's obviously the standard for a reason (and it's VERY solid vs. host plugs). Dissing another company's technology to promote your own isn't going to endear you to anyone. But kudos to Spectra for recognizing the importance of RTAS/TDM.

I digress...I think most people who've experienced ProTools would agree, "once you try it, you never want to go back to anything else." I'd just love to see all the great VSTi's featured on this site come along for the ride.

The first developer to make a universal VSTi wrapper for RTAS/TDM wins! (and NO not that awful DirectConnect nonesense).

Thanks.<hr /></blockquote>

Muon Software

KVR Audio

Muon (and other?) TDM support?