Entry level Orchestral VST

[kbaccki]

Speaking of Kirk Hunter... another entry in the entry-level field is his new "Spotlight Ensembles", which he says will be available in january, will run in kontakt player, and according to him "CRAZY afforable", I believe is exactly what he said. No price info yet, but speculating here... sub-$200 range? That would be crazy affordable and in line with competition.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 2&t=443910

Oh, and it looks like you can get a little downloadable demo as well... I'm sure the content is repackaging his exsiting stuff (diamond, spotlight, whatever) into a neat little emsemble/section package, which IMO will put it in the "decent to good" category. Probably worth downloading the demo, which I might do myself today...

Full kontakt not required, but ask anybody who knows, they'll say it's certainly recommended. Owning a kontakt player lib qualifies you for a discount on crossgrade to kontakt full, which during one of there 50% off sales can be preeettttyyy cheap, all things considered (like $125-$150, IIRC).

Other than that, I thout there was another vendor that came out with a cheap "orchestral ensembles" product within the last year. Was it spitfire? Can't remember.

[gaf_thit]

Other than that, I thout there was another vendor that came out with a cheap "orchestral ensembles" product within the last year. Was it spitfire? Can't remember

I've read good things about Sonivox FILM SCORE COMPANION, which recently went for $99. Could it be that one?

5 ensembles:
Orchestral Companion Brass
Orchestral Companion Strings
Orchestral Companion Woodwinds
Eighty Eight Ensemble
Big Bang Cinematic Percussion

Maybe there'll be a holiday sale?

http://sonivoxmi.com/products/details/f ... -companion
Anyone tried this?
As you say Kontakt is probably 'safest' and expandable.

[nineofkings]

I know it requires a dongle, but VSL or any other library with a disk-streaming component can do a lot with a little RAM. I have less than 8GB and can load an orchestra with all the necessary articulations with VSL SE 1.

[bobbyquine]

Some great info here, thank peeps.

VSL is out im afraid, its just too expensive and I don't want to get sucked into it!

Jazzaria, you suggested I think again about EWSQ, and mention that it doesn't need a 'USB fob', only iLok, can you clarify please? It does look like extremely good value. Are the problems with the play engine generally only when being pushed to the limit, or is it more fundamental than that?

The Kirk Hunter idea is sounding good, and Ive just realised that I already have a license for Komplete Selekt which at least gives me something to play with....

[Jazzaria]

Jazzaria, you suggested I think again about EWSQ, and mention that it doesn't need a 'USB fob', only iLok, can you clarify please?

You no longer need a physical iLok key, just an iLok account. You install the iLok software (I believe it makes a virtual device) and manage your licenses that way. The key is still an option for "convenience" (switching between computers faster - really just applicable to pros). See: http://www.soundsonline.com/Support?sec ... g&article= (this is also how UVI libraries work)

It does look like extremely good value. Are the problems with the play engine generally only when being pushed to the limit, or is it more fundamental than that?

It is pretty good value in terms of instrumental/articulation coverage per $, at least if you get it on sale (as it is for the rest of the month). The PLAY engine is just a bit wonkier than Kontakt - longer load times, more potential for glitches/artifacts, less editing/FX options (you can buy their SSL FX suite for $50 right now to get more though). I imagine it gets worse as you push it but I can't claim extensive personal experience. It's improved since a lot of the original bad reviews, though, and is IMO at least usable. Basically you just need a bit more patience than when working with Kontakt.

[bobbyquine]

Thanks for the info Jazzaria. Thats great to hear about iLok, I've always found those keys extremely awkward to use with a laptop.

It looks like the EW Silver might be a good starting point. It's tough to choose between this and Kontakt, as EW is NFR, otherwise I'd just start there.....

[kbaccki]

Hm... Play on an 8 gig laptop... It's more about the memory than the laptop, assuming you can run with a decent ssd or fast external drive for IO. I'd def get the greenlight from somebody that runs it with that amount of ram, esp for orchestral where the whole point is to have layers of instruments and sections. Used to be that Play was a bit of a dog resource wise... not sure if the latest is significantly better. Just do your homework is all I'm saying...

Also, perhaps mentioned previously... are you running 64bit? You're going to want to for large sample sets.

[bobbyquine]

Yes totally, I know I'm underpowered for this kind of thing. I have an SSD though.

TBH I don't need to do full layered orchestral symphony style for now, I'm more going to be doing smaller ensemble stuff, just (misguidedly) thought I'd cover it all with one full orchestral library.

As I didn't want to get caught up in configuring or learning different instruments, I thought I'd just get one package, but now I'm realising that the best way is probably to mix and match with Kontakt. That upcoming Kirk Hunter looks great....

[LGK_Dude]

The real question is what type of orchestral writing do you plan on doing. Are you looking for "epic film score / hollywood sound?" Or are you looking for that "classical orchestral sound?" Do you want something that is ready to go out of the box without much mixing? Or do you want something where you can really sculpt the sound?

If you want that hollywood sound out of the box for little money, you can't go wrong with EastWest EWQLSO. Just be aware that the reverb is baked in the samples (not too large, but its there and cannot be removed) and that all the instruments are pre-panned to orchestral positions, which is great if your writing for orchestra, not so great if you wanted to just add some orchestral instruments to an rock/pop arrangement. Also note that the whole EWQLSO series does not have true legato, if that matters to you. They have fixed this with their "hollywood" series, but its much more expensive and resource intensive.

If you want full control over a classical orchestral sound, VSL is the gold standard. Just know up front you will need to know how to use reverb, pan your instruments, EQ, etc as all their stuff is recorded in an abnormally dry stage (a custom built "silent stage" with little to no early reflection, which makes any instrument sound weird without adding reverb of some type) and their sounds have no built in panning or EQ, but each one of their samples is PERFECT (never heard a flub sample or crash for that matter with my VSL products; can't say the same about any other developer) and their VI player is exceptional - probably my favorite of all sample libraries. Just know you are going to have to work hard to get it to sound like you want, but this is what makes it the most flexible as well.

Another great developer is ProjectSam, and I'm really surprised they don't get mentioned more often. Perhaps because their libraries tend to be geared towards the professional market and thus are a bit expensive, but their new "Orchestral Essentials" series is designed to be an entry point. https://www.projectsam.com/Products/Ess ... eries/1406

You could also check out Spitfire Albion series, though again they are geared towards the professional market and might be out of your price range. https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/ranges/albion/

Then there are the smaller developers like Cinesamples, Audiobro, Orchestral tools, etc which all offer their take on the orchestra, and each sound good in their own way.

If you don't own Kontakt, make sure the libraries work with Kontakt Player, which is free. If you are serious about writing with samples, you will need to own Kontakt eventually, so I wouldn't let this be a deciding factor. In fact, Kontakt itself comes with a great entry level orchestra which might be good enough on its own for your needs. IMO its just as capable as EWQLSO Silver.

At the end of the day though, I'm sorry to say there is no "one size fits all" sample orchestra. I mix and match my orchestra depending on what I need and the sound I want for a particular piece, and even layer multiple manufacturers together. Some developers do strings better, some do brass better, some do woodwinds better. I even change my choices based on style (some do aggressive strings better while others do lyrical strings better, etc) and of course better is all subjective to the listener and their goals (like I mentioned above). The best you can do is listen to a lot of demos (I personally recommend walkthrough demos and not full pieces, that way you can hear things raw) from multiple developers and see what you like.

edit: I forgot to mention, if I were starting out today I would go straight to the EW Composers Cloud. There is SO much great stuff in there, and you get it all for like $30 a month! Treat it like a "demo period" to try a bunch of their libraries and see if they will work for you. If they don't, then you can drop the subscription and buy something else. Really an awesome way to start out IMO. http://www.soundsonline.com/composercloud

[bobbyquine]

Hey dude,

Thanks for the informative post.

Yes absolutely, I'm realising now that there is no one size fits all. Thanks for the description of the EW sound,
EW Cloud looks cool, but I'm absolutely not after the big hollywood sound, in fact almost the opposite.

I'm planning to sketch and write for smaller ensembles, at most chamber orchestra, and actually don't need an amazing sound, just realism in expression, because I won't be finishing music with the samples.

Ease of use is the other point, and at one point I thought I could swerve key switch articulations altogether by using Synful Orchestra, but that looks abandoned.

I does make sense to build up a good selection of Kontakt instruments it seems.

[SampleScience]

Miroslav 1 is cheap, works on slow computers, and sounds halfway decent. You can load multiple instruments at a time into a single instance and keep the CPU real low.

Just to help a bit more...UVI can be taxing on a computer. Start loading a bunch of sounds and suddenly you got tons of hiccups on your system. Same thing with the Sampletank 3 engine which is what Miroslav 2 uses.

I think for under $40 you can't beat M1 for sketching and even some completed projects.

+1 This is what I currently use and it suits my needs. Some of the sounds could be a bit better (the brass for instance), but overall it's a real bargain and well worth its price. With a bit of tweaking you can make it sounds very lush, check youtube for tutorial about this.

[bobbyquine]

Thanks Jon, yes I've been trying to avoid having to use a 32bit bridge though....

[chroma]

i found miroslav sounds good but a _lot_ of work - i had the original version, and have some of the kontakt versions (which are $10 for each of the 5 volumes at esoundz right now).... this as opposed to, say, pop/rock strings (the kirk hunter library I have), where I can just kind of play on the keyboard and it sounds reasonably good.

an off the wall suggestion maybe: has anyone tried wallander's NotePerformer? it's basically a full-orchestra version of WIVI. it only works in sibelius, so if you went that way, you'd have to use sibelius and write a score. But while I don't think WIVI (which is winds/brass) is necessarily as good sounding as some sample libraries, it's way more expressive (i play them with my EWI-USB, which doesn't work well with most other sample libraries), and still sounds decent. So I'd imagine that if you're more worried about expression than sound, it might be a good way to go. Looks like it's about $250 for the whole thing ($120 for sibelius-first, and $120 or so for NotePerformer)...

anyone ever used it? i don't use sibelius or write scores, so i only briefly looked into it before...

[Vintage73]

Not for myself, but in the interest of this thread, how is the VSL Essential Orchestra that comes with Vienna Ensemble Pro 5?

At only about $200 (plus discounts, depending), the software itself seems like kind of a bargain with an orchestra.

[fmr]

Not for myself, but in the interest of this thread, how is the VSL Essential Orchestra that comes with Vienna Ensemble Pro 5?

At only about $200 (plus discounts, depending), the software itself seems like kind of a bargain with an orchestra.

I think it's called Epic Orchestra, not Essential Orchestra. And it will fall short in the field of "Essential", IMO, although it can complement very well something like Miroslav Philharmonic, and there are people producing music just with it, according to the VSL site. It concentrates on the ensemble (big ensemble) part of the job, but lacks solo instruments, for exemple. Here is what's included:
Appassionata Strings Ensemble
Violins, violas, cellos, basses
Mapped as one ensemble spread out over the keyboard from basses to violins
Articulations: Staccato, sustained, sforzato, tremolo, pizzicato
Woodwinds Ensemble
Piccolo, 3 flutes, 3 clarinets, 3 bassoons, contrabassoon
Mapped as one ensemble spread out over the keyboard from contrabassoon to piccolo
Articulations: Staccato, sustained
Oboe d'amore
Articulations: Staccato, sustained, legato performances
Cornet
Articulations: Staccato, sustained, legato performances, portamento performances
Epic Horns (8 horns ensemble)
Articulations: Staccato, sustained
Fanfare Trumpets (6 trumpets ensemble)
Articulations: Staccato, sustained
Drums & Percussion
Timpani, snare drum, bass drum, tambourine, triangle, piatti, cymbal, tamtam
Articulations: Single hits, rolls (no rolls for piatti)