Do you have to play an instrument?

[3mph]

I'm not old (not young either), but life have taught me, that nothing can be defined as "better" than other things. It all comes down to one point: the ears on the person who creates music, and the ears attached to the listeners head.

So..

I have a certain amount of theoretical knowledge and I play around with some "real" instruments. A close friend of mine started using Reason without really having played anything before or played around with other kinds of musical tools. We both use the same site as feedback-channel, and the funny part is that some fancys my polished and "traditional" tracks, and some prefers his sometimes odd creations. But which one of us is the best? Which one of us has the advantage? I think the charts on this site speaks for themselves as we're both high rated in each our genre (well.. we're both on the top30 among 2000+ bands. This is just a fact, I hope this won't be taken as arrogant).

As I see it, the inspirational factor has much importance too. How you feel when you do the music. Whether you play an instrument or not, it doens't determine how much fun you'll get out of making music. Four hours spent on making music would make the same amount of fun, make you feel just as free and give the sane escapism being educated or not.


(sorry for my very bad english)

[visa tapani]

Could you explain a bit where in my post you read a 'glorification of the uneducated'?

Well, like, here:
"Rules are for the insensitive who need it for orientation because they are lacking the ability to find their course on their own."

It seems you completely missed my point.

I might have, but then you verbalized your point poorly.

[jens]

It seems you completely missed my point.

I might have, but then you verbalized your point poorly.

nope - you either misread what I wrote or you read something between the lines which I didn't write.


B.t.w.: no need to resize what I wrote. First of all I am not yet blind and furtheron my memory still works quite well

[visa tapani]

nope - you either misread what I wrote or you read something between the lines which I didn't write.:

Well if you are missing all the implications that are flagrantly shouting from that post of yours then you have problems with your apprehension of written english. You might not have intended those meanings but they are definitely present in your text.

B.t.w.: no need to resize what I wrote. First of all I am not yet blind and furtheron my memory still works quite well

I though it might help you read between the lines...

[pHz]

remember (both of you) that there is a huge gulf between actual education and merely being told 'this is the right way to do it'

slainte rob

[aMUSEd]

I was thinking about this... Can you really make decent music without being an instrumentalist? If you make music, isn't a fundamental aspect to have practical and theoretical knowledge?

With someone like Squarepusher it is really obvious that he plays instruments. There are loads of undergrounds acts though that just don't seem to even be able to make a melody. I think that I can tell with a producer whether they play drums or not, there just is a difference. I feel that's why people like Chemical Brothers, Fat Boy Slim, DJ Shadow, Dj Premier and Squarepusher are in another league as such, they understand drums and therefore make better beats than Roni Size, Goldie and others...

I dunno I just see if anyone is feeling me on this one? I'm not saying that people should be Miles Davis or Steve Gadd but some basic instrumental skills aren't that hard to aquire and to my mind are essential.

Just my response to the original post. I'm very interested in ways of opening up access to the arts and music to "the masses" - in ways of empowering people to actualise their potential regardless of their initial level of skill or education. I think that one of the best things about computer based music is that it further opens up the possibility to create and compose music to those who lack the skills to play an instrument. I think this is important because having the vision to think up music and having the hand/eye coordination or physical ability to play an instrument are not the same thing at all so it opens up access to music making for a greater mass of people. I think there is then a greater chance that some of those people whose musical vision exceeds their instrumental skills would be able to articulate their thoughts and feelings in musical form to the greater benefit of humanity ultimately.


Of course taking this a step further there is also Harry Partch (and others) view that anything can be an instrument depending on how you use it. He used found objects to make music to illustrate this, again with the intention of opening up acccess to music making to people who would normally not be so enabled. So you could argue that using a computer in this way converts the computer into an instrument itself so that essentially you are mastering an instrument as your music making skills develop through experience using it.

So while I'd say no, you don't have to play an instrument in the "traditional" sense (such as piano or guitar etc) to be able to create or compose music I think in practice you'll find that you are if you extend the concept of "instrument" a bit. So you could say that for someone like Amon Tobin, his AKAI is his instrument.

In this sense an instrument is simply the tool or means by which you articulate your musical vision.

[visa tapani]

remember (both of you) that there is a huge gulf between actual education and merely being told 'this is the right way to do it'

True, but I believe jens was talking about music theory in general, covering all different ways it can be taught.


Unfortunately I have to exit the discussion now, as I'm leaving for our summer-cabin for a few days...

[Equilibrium]

Great post Amused.

And why Jens is it that because you have learned rules that means you can't break them?

[jens]

remember (both of you) that there is a huge gulf between actual education and merely being told 'this is the right way to do it'

True, but I believe jens was talking about music theory in general, covering all different ways it can be taught.

at least a part of my original post you interpreted correctly

[TrekStar]

If I want to communicate...do I have to learn to speak?
Of I want to fly a boing...do I have to learn to fly?
If I want to have sex....do I have to move my body?
If I want to make music...do I have to learn a instrument?

Questions and even more questions....

In fact you don't have to do anything. You are free. I am only wondering if you are interested in music why you are too lazy to learn an instrument?
You really don't have to do so. But don't expect then any serious results. If that is enough for you...wonderful...have fun!

I am quite sure your next question in this forum will be: "How do I write a song?"

[jens]

I am quite sure your next question in this forum will be: "How do I write a song?"

and what would be your smart answer?

[dystonia_ek]

I do kind of like some of his stuff but I think a lot electronic music is just people wanking over laptops which is just as horrible as vocal (read -carey & shit RnB) or guitar wankery (read - your malmsteems and whatnot)!

Wankery must go!

Yes, wankery must go... but in all musical genres there's going to be a lot of crap, regardless of instruments/training. I would hazard a guess that trained and highly technical musicians are generally going to have a higher wank factor than others - guitarists are particularly prone to this particular vice, the whole lookatmelookatmelookatmelistentothese128thnotetrills! syndrome...

But there's a very big wanky laptop scene here in my hometown, and it gets just as much on my nerves to hear people given great and flexible tools like csound and max/msp and then do nothing but intermittent clicks and bleeps with it, simultaneously getting a standing ovation from all the chin-stroking boho hordes who then get all Deleuze on it.

[dystonia_ek]

If I want to communicate...do I have to learn to speak?
Of I want to fly a boing...do I have to learn to fly?
If I want to have sex....do I have to move my body?
If I want to make music...do I have to learn a instrument?

No, yes, no and no.

I am only wondering if you are interested in music why you are too lazy to learn an instrument?
You really don't have to do so. But don't expect then any serious results. If that is enough for you...wonderful...have fun!

Is this Yngvie Malmsteen writing? Aren't you still supposed to be in detox or something?

Laziness is not the issue here. A great number of people have made very serious music without musical instruments, even.
So it's a little pretentious to dismiss at one stroke electroacoustics, musique concrete, hip hop, the vast majority of techno/electronica (though this seems to have changed somewhat from the days when the majority of producers were djs and not musicians), industrial, power electronics, etc, etc?

Hip hop certainly changed the face of pop music using only turntables, and later samplers. No music theory necessary.

[tetraplan]

I don't belive in the machines power to replace talent.

The piano is a machine.
Does a piano replace talent?
How (doesn't it)?

Of course you can do enjoyable music using the patterns your PC has to offer but these are just rules and if you'll start learning by rules you'll never find the path to your rules.

Forget patterns.
Learn your computer.

Groet, Erik

[jens]

I don't belive in the machines power to replace talent.

The piano is a machine.
Does a piano replace talent?
How (doesn't it)?

Groet, Erik

are you sure you read his sentence correctly?