[edited title to fit the protocol and hopefully get some more responses...!]
Howdy, this is my first ever post to the cafe!!!
I have just done a website (at the fantatstic 'audioshot') with some of my songs.
The one I am highlighting here I wrote after reading a review of Beck's 'Sea Change' album which used the description 'progressive folk'.
Now I like Beck, though I'm not a great folk fancier, and I love old prog rock, and this song sort of suggested itself just from that description. I hadn't heard the Beck album then, and it doesn't sound anything like that!
It's the second song on this page, called 'A Rainy Day'
Any constructive/destructive criticism gratefully/grudgingly accepted!!
http://thedairygiant.audioshot.net
[electronic/acoustic/prog/folk] lousy definition!.
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- KVRian
- 838 posts since 22 Feb, 2001
Hi,
very nice, simple and clean layout. Looks very professional.
Also enjoyed your music.
Regards
blue
very nice, simple and clean layout. Looks very professional.
Also enjoyed your music.
Regards
blue
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- KVRAF
- 6179 posts since 29 Mar, 2003 from Location: Location
Liked this alot...really strong effort. 
Love anything with a good steel guitar like sound.
Well paced and performed.
The mix/recording is not bad...but for this composition,could have been better.(not ready to remark about it...just woke up.haha)
Too many key tranpositions for the sake of it.
Some are done well...like the "Yes" type.
Other key jumps don`t have the same sort of musical thought behind it.(Not good to just jump keys without a good reason)
Not easy for me to musically decribe what i`m trying to say.
I would love to make suggestions by just playing them to you.
If that interests you...posting some or all of your tracks in your thread as mp3/ogg whatever would be a thrill to work with.
This way,I could rewrite a few of these jumps...not just edit them out..but correct what jumps are worth keeping in,then rewiting the instrument movements.
I think this song has lots of potential for becoming a complete and working composition.But as it is...it`s not there yet.
Barry.
Oh ,BYW,i`m a guitar/bass/drums,and some keyboard player,w/experience in 60`s/70`s progressive rock/folk/western.(not what i`m working on in this site though...but good at it just the same)
Just midi`ed one guitar and one 5 string bass.
later on zoing.
Love anything with a good steel guitar like sound.
Well paced and performed.
The mix/recording is not bad...but for this composition,could have been better.(not ready to remark about it...just woke up.haha)
Too many key tranpositions for the sake of it.
Some are done well...like the "Yes" type.
Other key jumps don`t have the same sort of musical thought behind it.(Not good to just jump keys without a good reason)
Not easy for me to musically decribe what i`m trying to say.
I would love to make suggestions by just playing them to you.
If that interests you...posting some or all of your tracks in your thread as mp3/ogg whatever would be a thrill to work with.
This way,I could rewrite a few of these jumps...not just edit them out..but correct what jumps are worth keeping in,then rewiting the instrument movements.
I think this song has lots of potential for becoming a complete and working composition.But as it is...it`s not there yet.
Barry.
Oh ,BYW,i`m a guitar/bass/drums,and some keyboard player,w/experience in 60`s/70`s progressive rock/folk/western.(not what i`m working on in this site though...but good at it just the same)
Just midi`ed one guitar and one 5 string bass.
later on zoing.
....................Don`t blame me for 'The Roots', I just live here. 
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- KVRAF
- 3057 posts since 9 Apr, 2003
Zoing, that was beautiful
very nice web site as well ... will return to listen to the others
very nice web site as well ... will return to listen to the others
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- KVRian
- 1460 posts since 26 Nov, 2002
Really like this song Zoing, very nicely done and the guitar work is superb, as Annode said anything with a steel guitar sound that isn't country is tops in my book. The production is well done too, will be checking out some more of your tunes at your website. And keep posting here. 
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 164 posts since 13 Mar, 2002 from New Zealand
Thanks for your kind words annode, havran and soniccat.
Annode, your quite in-depth evaluation is interesting. Firstly, the mp3 file should be downloadable from the 'Hi' link, so feel free! If its not please let me know.
But all my chord changes and modulations, (while more extreme than normal for me) were pretty carefully considered. I am an old bastard, 41 now, and discovered the music of Genesis, 'trick of the tail' when I was around 16, and have been in love with the harmony structures of that kind of music since then (on and off).
I'll try to explain it if you're interested. Firstly, it was always inteneded to be a juxtapositon of folkiness and proginess (!), so there was the verse, folky chords (sorta) except where it goes from C to D and back to C/G, which is a kind of intentional musical hiccup, and foreshadows the modulation into the chorus in E.
Now the chorus starts with what (in my mind) is the architypal prog chord, a big major with the bass in the third. but the sequence has a Bb chord in there as a kind of spicy flavour, and by a combination of luck and design resolves back in to the key of C for the next verse.
Now the intro and outro are based around a variation of that chord structure. The intro has a few extra chords resolving nicely into Em, so that the move into the 1st verse in C is closely related, but still a shift.
Right!, now the middle section before the instrumental is still basically all in C, with a few odd chords in passing, but it does have the only non considered chord change -- when I was recording the acoustic guitar, for some reason I went to C# briefly in the lead in to that section, and kept it as a moment of letting the subconscious have its way...
So then the instrumental, which is of course the same as the chorus, only in D as a lift from C, and the natural sounding key to resolve to to get the 'big prog effect' after the Bb bridging chord. Although of course the second half of the instrumental modulates to the relative major of B (that might be the wrong term theory-wise, but you'll know what I mean, the major version of the relative minor), I actually quite like that it goes from Fmaj9 to B/Eb, just intellectually, but thats just me. It also achieves the aim of the instrumental resolving handily back to C for the last verse, but then I throw a little spanner in the works with the slightly jazzy sequence C, F#7, Bbmaj7, Ebmaj7, C#maj7, G6, but it follows the descending melody line, and ends back leading into C, so its a little cyclic sort of detour.
Then basically it's all down hill from there, verse, slight variation at the end of which leads into the outro, which is basically the intro repeated.
Now this is just my justification, and of course I can justify whatever I like, it doesn't mean anyone has to agree, or like the end result! It's certainly got more modulations than most of my songs, and is probably a bit of a tongue in cheek excercise to a certain extant.
But just to let you know, its all pretty carefully considered, though this is the first time I've ever tried to put it into words.
I would be interested to know which bits you think are over over the top or gratuitious, and I do value your input!
cheers
Simon (Zoing [The Dairy Giant])
Annode, your quite in-depth evaluation is interesting. Firstly, the mp3 file should be downloadable from the 'Hi' link, so feel free! If its not please let me know.
But all my chord changes and modulations, (while more extreme than normal for me) were pretty carefully considered. I am an old bastard, 41 now, and discovered the music of Genesis, 'trick of the tail' when I was around 16, and have been in love with the harmony structures of that kind of music since then (on and off).
I'll try to explain it if you're interested. Firstly, it was always inteneded to be a juxtapositon of folkiness and proginess (!), so there was the verse, folky chords (sorta) except where it goes from C to D and back to C/G, which is a kind of intentional musical hiccup, and foreshadows the modulation into the chorus in E.
Now the chorus starts with what (in my mind) is the architypal prog chord, a big major with the bass in the third. but the sequence has a Bb chord in there as a kind of spicy flavour, and by a combination of luck and design resolves back in to the key of C for the next verse.
Now the intro and outro are based around a variation of that chord structure. The intro has a few extra chords resolving nicely into Em, so that the move into the 1st verse in C is closely related, but still a shift.
Right!, now the middle section before the instrumental is still basically all in C, with a few odd chords in passing, but it does have the only non considered chord change -- when I was recording the acoustic guitar, for some reason I went to C# briefly in the lead in to that section, and kept it as a moment of letting the subconscious have its way...
So then the instrumental, which is of course the same as the chorus, only in D as a lift from C, and the natural sounding key to resolve to to get the 'big prog effect' after the Bb bridging chord. Although of course the second half of the instrumental modulates to the relative major of B (that might be the wrong term theory-wise, but you'll know what I mean, the major version of the relative minor), I actually quite like that it goes from Fmaj9 to B/Eb, just intellectually, but thats just me
. It also achieves the aim of the instrumental resolving handily back to C for the last verse, but then I throw a little spanner in the works with the slightly jazzy sequence C, F#7, Bbmaj7, Ebmaj7, C#maj7, G6, but it follows the descending melody line, and ends back leading into C, so its a little cyclic sort of detour.Then basically it's all down hill from there, verse, slight variation at the end of which leads into the outro, which is basically the intro repeated.
Now this is just my justification, and of course I can justify whatever I like, it doesn't mean anyone has to agree, or like the end result! It's certainly got more modulations than most of my songs, and is probably a bit of a tongue in cheek excercise to a certain extant.
But just to let you know, its all pretty carefully considered, though this is the first time I've ever tried to put it into words.
I would be interested to know which bits you think are over over the top or gratuitious, and I do value your input!
cheers
Simon (Zoing [The Dairy Giant])
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- KVRAF
- 6179 posts since 29 Mar, 2003 from Location: Location
Hey Simon.
Thanx for laying that out for me.
As a music discussion,i`m happy we`re having it.
It`s real early in the morn here now...so i`m not up for much more to say at this time.
I`ll go through the chords and have more to discuss after.
I`m a ripe 49...just this month by the way.
It`s all a nice exercise for me.Good for the brain.
I`m not going to try to persuede you to see my way in thinking...but I know you understand.
Night/morning...yawn.
Thanx for laying that out for me.
As a music discussion,i`m happy we`re having it.
It`s real early in the morn here now...so i`m not up for much more to say at this time.
I`ll go through the chords and have more to discuss after.
I`m a ripe 49...just this month by the way.
It`s all a nice exercise for me.Good for the brain.
I`m not going to try to persuede you to see my way in thinking...but I know you understand.
Night/morning...yawn.
....................Don`t blame me for 'The Roots', I just live here.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 164 posts since 13 Mar, 2002 from New Zealand
hi annode, I thought I might be one of the oldest guys around here, but you beat me by a bit...
I'm impressed you actually read all that nonsense I'll look forward to hearing your perspective.
Its 10.00 Sunday night here, and I'm going to have an early night after a lot of late nights working out how to do a website... That is if I can stop playing with Cameleon...
I'm impressed you actually read all that nonsense
I'll look forward to hearing your perspective.Its 10.00 Sunday night here, and I'm going to have an early night after a lot of late nights working out how to do a website... That is if I can stop playing with Cameleon...
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- KVRist
- 37 posts since 19 Jan, 2003 from Netherlands
I liked this a lot.
Great pedal steel.
I'm old proghead myself (47), doesn't sounds to much like Genesis though.
It has far more a Barclay James Harvest feel: tempo, acoustic guitars, de mellotronish pad sound, vocals, vocal harmonies, chord progressions.
The pedal steel reminds a bit of Yes (And You and I, To be Over).
Henny
Great pedal steel.
I'm old proghead myself (47), doesn't sounds to much like Genesis though.
It has far more a Barclay James Harvest feel: tempo, acoustic guitars, de mellotronish pad sound, vocals, vocal harmonies, chord progressions.
The pedal steel reminds a bit of Yes (And You and I, To be Over).
Henny
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- KVRAF
- 7672 posts since 9 Nov, 2003 from Netherlands
Very enjoyable and softly calming music.
There was this odd thing though at 2.27, like a small hick-up.
Welcome to KvR btw
Not the music I'd put up immediately but still it draws my attention and I'll listen to some more
There was this odd thing though at 2.27, like a small hick-up.
Welcome to KvR btw
Not the music I'd put up immediately but still it draws my attention and I'll listen to some more
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- KVRAF
- 3964 posts since 31 Aug, 2003 from In a foreign town, in a foreign land
Nice stuff (and very cool site, BTW)
Listening to Lost In Space.
Somehow, I can hear Robert Wyatt sing this.
Groet, Erik
Listening to Lost In Space.
Somehow, I can hear Robert Wyatt sing this.
Groet, Erik
Pop music delenda est.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 164 posts since 13 Mar, 2002 from New Zealand
Thanks everyone!!
Just to clear up any missaprehension, its not real pedal steel, its just ordinary guitar with a mixture of held and bent notes at the beginning of the song, and played with a slide later. I wanted the bit at the beginnintg to sound pedal steel-ish though.
I agree, this song isn't specifiaclly Genesis like, I don't really want to sound like anyone in particular... I did have a Barclay James Harvest album once, 'Gone to Earth', which I liked.
And I'll have to check out that 'hiccup' too Mystahr, Thanks for the welcome, I've actaully been around KVR for a few years, manily just reading, not too much posting!!!
Just to clear up any missaprehension, its not real pedal steel, its just ordinary guitar with a mixture of held and bent notes at the beginning of the song, and played with a slide later. I wanted the bit at the beginnintg to sound pedal steel-ish though.
I agree, this song isn't specifiaclly Genesis like, I don't really want to sound like anyone in particular... I did have a Barclay James Harvest album once, 'Gone to Earth', which I liked.
And I'll have to check out that 'hiccup' too Mystahr, Thanks for the welcome, I've actaully been around KVR for a few years, manily just reading, not too much posting!!!