KVR Audio

z.prime · Post by **z.prime** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:23 pm

There are 2 issues in play:

1) Level playing field
2) Representation of the synth

The "no commercial plugin" restriction is in play in an attempt to address #1: people who only have a DAW can all have essentially the same FX to use.

The lack of modulation plugins and other rules to prevent transforming the sound significantly are to address #2.

I am against all these rules.

From my perspective, it makes entry more difficult since you can't use your paid plugins that you might know very well. I think we've proven that the free plugins are pretty well on par, if used well. The commercial ones do offer a faster workflow often, but not enough that Also, I'm all for making the best track possible at the expense of faithfulness to the synth because I'd rather hear good music.

But, this being the one-synth-challenge, and having had multiple votes over the past years on the subject, the consensus is to keep it how it is: as even a playing field as possible, showcase the synth as much as possible.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:12 pm

z.prime wrote:There are 2 issues in play:

1) Level playing field
2) Representation of the synth

The "no commercial plugin" restriction is in play in an attempt to address #1: people who only have a DAW can all have essentially the same FX to use.

The lack of modulation plugins and other rules to prevent transforming the sound significantly are to address #2.

I am against all these rules.

From my perspective, it makes entry more difficult since you can't use your paid plugins that you might know very well. I think we've proven that the free plugins are pretty well on par, if used well. The commercial ones do offer a faster workflow often, but not enough that Also, I'm all for making the best track possible at the expense of faithfulness to the synth because I'd rather hear good music.

But, this being the one-synth-challenge, and having had multiple votes over the past years on the subject, the consensus is to keep it how it is: as even a playing field as possible, showcase the synth as much as possible.

Which brings me back to the same question.

MPS using built in comb filter vs Synth X using external free comb filter.

What's the difference?

Same with chorus, distortion or any FX that change the "sound" of the synth.

What's the difference?

I'm just not seeing what it is we're actually accomplishing in practice, in spite of what it looks like on paper.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:21 pm

bjporter wrote:The main reason for that rule is because the OSC is about showcasing what a synth can do, and the external/daw FX restrictions are in place to allow a that in a balanced way.

Except in actuality, because external FX are in fact allowed, this "reasoning" only goes so far, especially with all the gray areas of FX where it is clearly obvious that the synth, on it's own, can't possibly make that sound.

In short, we seem to be drawing an arbitrary line that, in the grand scheme of things, I'm not sure is doing what it's supposed to be doing.

I mean have you listened to some of these OSC tracks? No way do some of these synths make those sounds.

You either stick to the letter of the law (only what the synth can do) or you remove all the FX restrictions. The middle ground, which is what we have, is arbitrary and frustrating. And a perfect example of this is a plugin that I used maybe 6 months ago that I can no longer use because it's suddenly not free.

And what about the DAWs with specific plugs that are only available for that particular DAW? So does this mean if we want to do a track with that FX plug we have to switch to that DAW for that month? I mean how crazy is that?

The fact that everybody has a different DAW, most of which cost a lot of money, puts everybody on a different playing field even before you get to the synth you're using, unless you want to stipulate that everybody has to use a free DAW.

The level playing field issue, IMO, doesn't work. At least not well. As far as preserving the integrity of the sound of the synth, again, listen to some of these tracks. Boundaries have really been stretched.

And that's being diplomatic about it.

ontrackp · Post by **ontrackp** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:16 am

Forget logic, forget long convoluted discussions and consider common sense and the spirit of the OSC.

One Synth Challenge. We're supposed to make a track using sounds from one synth. We are not supposed to substantively change the sound using a modulation effect. We are not supposed to use the synth like an oscillator and our DAW like a filter. That's a pretty easy concept to follow. If the synth doesn't include a comb filter - then you can't have a sound that is comb filtered.

The complicated part has more to do with production than sound programming. Because there are so many very, very accomplished producers here, I think it makes some of the less experienced producers worry too much about what effects they're using in their mix. Even if you have the best, most expensive reverbs, compressors and eq's, you can still make a bad mix. And you can do a great mix with free effects.

The bottom line is that (and it has been proven over and over in the voting results) If someone makes great sounds, does a great composition and makes a decent mix they're going to do well, regardless of what brand reverb, compressor, eq or delay they use.

Personally, I think we should be allowed to use commercial plugins for dynamic processing, EQ, reverb and delay. The playing field is already uneven due to different DAW's, computers, speakers, etc..., and I don't think using paid effects makes that big a difference. You're still going to do a good mix or a crappy mix and will be graded accordingly.

rghvdberg · Post by **rghvdberg** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:19 pm

Did some testing with Helm 0.6 in Windows 10 with Reaper and Linux with Ardour 4
No issues at all.
In linux i've been running a fairly large project , about 15 instances and cpu load stays about 30%
In windows just a quick project (5 instances) cpu is 10% ...
Automation etc works, saving / loading patches, all good.

EDIT: Is was verion 0.6 instead of 0.7

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:57 am

Hm... just saw the Sample Science rompler "Orion Sound Module" - since it's also crossplatform, is it a candidate for a OSC? Or would it not count as a Synth due to limited editing capabilities?

Did the OSC even focus on romplers in recent years?

bjporter · Post by **bjporter** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:07 pm

Compyfox wrote:Hm... just saw the Sample Science rompler "Orion Sound Module" - since it's also crossplatform, is it a candidate for a OSC? Or would it not count as a Synth due to limited editing capabilities?

Did the OSC even focus on romplers in recent years?

Nope, we've never done a rompler. Rules don't allow it either.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:21 am

This answers my question then.

rghvdberg · Post by **rghvdberg** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:09 am

Compyfox wrote:Hm... just saw the Sample Science rompler "Orion Sound Module" - since it's also crossplatform, is it a candidate for a OSC? Or would it not count as a Synth due to limited editing capabilities?

Did the OSC even focus on romplers in recent years?

No linux support, so not crossplatform.

Just trolling

bh9090 · Post by **bh9090** » Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:31 pm

I'm hoping for a simple straightforward synth for 84!

Some nominations:
Helm: http://tytel.org/helm/
This FM thing: http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2015/10 ... lvsti-vst/

This would be wacky: http://www.plogue.com/products/alterego
There would be some crazy submissions for sure.

bjporter · Post by **bjporter** » Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:56 pm

bh9090 wrote:I'm hoping for a simple straightforward synth for 84!

Some nominations:
Helm: http://tytel.org/helm/
This FM thing: http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2015/10 ... lvsti-vst/

This would be wacky: http://www.plogue.com/products/alterego
There would be some crazy submissions for sure.

Nice. Have you run these? I'd love to hear a mini review (aka cpu usage, stability, multiple instances, etc) from you. I'll check them out.

babel2 · Post by **babel2** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:52 am

I love Helm but I have major problems reopening a project using it.
It works perfectly initially but won't recall saved settings properly and often kills sound output on my computer when reopening the project.
Not sure which version I am running but I have updated it since it was released (Mac 10.9)

Daru925 · Post by **Daru925** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:28 am

Dont know why, but one instance of helm is enough to kill my laptop

I have a crappy laptop but still, i can run 10 -15 instances of charlatan for the same cpu usage...

The Traveler · Post by **The Traveler** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:31 pm

Just a side question: Any idea when the KVR OSC download problem for Archive.org might be fixed? It mentions "in early January" ... still appears to be broken.

Cheers.

bh9090 · Post by **bh9090** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:34 pm

I haven't run either, and probably won't get a chance to investigate much today, but initial reports on Helm don't look too good I guess...

One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread