StiX : MultiSynthesis Drum Machine (v1.6 Released + Flash sales)

[Lotuzia]

Thanks Lotuzia for taking the time to make such a detailed reply to my post. And thanks also to jbuonacc, you articulated a lot of what was going through my mind when I was writing it.

I was initially thinking in terms of feature requests but I could see that adding more stuff would clutter up something that is already crowded which is why I dragged modules into it. And of course throwing in every possible feature to try to keep everyone happy would just make a mess of a synth.

I'm interested by your comment about making a drum machine that does all the sounds that a hardware synthesiser can do. Some earlier posts make much of the quality of the resonant filters, it seems to me that this is far from being the most important thing when creating percussion sounds. Percussion sounds are very short but potentially with a lot of detail over the course of the sound, both in the attack and the decay, so things like fast envelopes/lfos (up to audio rate?) - with the ability to fine tune at higher than usual speeds - and adjustable envelope shapes (giving more options for sculpting kicks, for example) become more important. I just wonder if looking at this through the lens of hardware designed primarily for creating melodic/harmonic content is a bit limiting - was it ever that great at percussion sounds in the first place? Analog hardware designed for percussion (or what can be done with a full on modular) is of course another matter!

On the subject of the clap (yes I know there are claps, but these are effectively variations of white noise snares) I could not recreate the clap sound that most people would recognise, i.e. a short roll of noise bursts followed by a single more diffuse one. Perhaps a simple way around this without messing too much with the synth as it is would be to allow a second oscillator to double as a noise source, then one oscillator can have a repeating ramp down lfo for the attack while the other could be used with different treatments for the body. But another problem is that lfo currently only modulates filter or pitch - if it could modify amp as well it would be much more useful.

I don't want come across as a clap obsessive, that was just one of the first things that struck me when I tried the demo. I had the same feeling about other sounds with a noise component or in higher registers. I'm also not that interested in samples in drum machines with synthesis engines - not because I never use percussion samples but because the attraction of percussion synthesis is the possibility to shape the sound. Samples also tend to break the underlying coherence of the sound of the synthesis engine.

Sorry if this comes across as rather negative - unlike one or two of the posters here there are things I like about Stix and I would love to be able to like it better - if I wasn't interested I'd just move on.

just a few points :

* You can have a second -or third- noise source by modulationg a sine oscillator by itself ( or by another sine oscillator )( 1rst switch the MOSC 1 or 2 to sine, then modulate in one of the matrixes ) FM can produce a variety of different noise sources.

* Yes you're right, we forgot to add the 2 LFOs as modulation sources in the Macro modulator This should have been done for a long time, but for a reason or another, it seems it went well hidden under the pile. Sorry for that, it will be done in one of the next beta I think.

* Samples : With cross synthesis, you can *impose* some of the characteristics/shapes of the sample ( like a ... clap sample) to analog oscillators. It gives interesting results, because the *analog* oscillator keeps on beeing *alive*, but inherits some of the characteristics of the sample. Its different from the sample, but its different from the raw oscillator as well. Its hybrid, but it has a 'life'. Of course you have to tweak carefully the VCA and VCF EVs after that. You can also modulate other things using the sample, like the LFO speed for example, or well, anything.

* I always forgot to mention it, but StiX va engine is sample accurate also. Wich means very tight synchro. Not the case of all VA engines, for those, like me, who also enjoy making percussive/drum sounds with *regular* synthesizers.

For the claps specifically, I think a delay parameter for the osc and/or EVs might be usefull also. Or maybe your idea of a tilt filter. Well, we'll see. Atm we're all dedicated to finish the GUI/UI as good as possible, add a few functions that were missing, and debug the whole thing as much as possible. But we're noting all interesting ideas that come here and there. The GUI mods took notice of some comments here for example. Some ideas are incompatible with the global structure of Stix, and other might find their place with time ( and some room on the gui also )

[jbuonacc]

... This said it will never be 'the drum machine that can do everything' and 'that kills all other drum machines' If you have read me sometimes, you know that I dont believe at all in this kind of things ...

honestly, i'm completely fine with this. i would never try to do all my drums with one "machine" anyway. i just don't see the point in every "drum pad" using the same synthesis engine, especially when it can't pull of more complex sounds. i was a bit disappointed to see that for hi-hats, snares, claps, etc it seems limited to the usual simple "synth/noise based analog" variety that can be made with pretty much any synth. the x0x machines sound so damn nice because they use more complex synthesis methods than those that are to be had with "traditional" means. i know that i can use a synth to create a vast number of percussion sounds, but i know that there's a lot of great percussion sounds that that synth won't be able to make. due to this, i would be hesitant to turn to that synth for percussion sounds. i'm afraid of that happening here, people may be turned off by the relatively simple "universal drum synth engine". the Elektron Machinedrum probably would have tanked if they didn't have such a variety of sound engines (plus the unique UW features gave it a new lease on life, beyond just loading user samples), and plenty of people were turned off by the DSI Tempest due to the "limitation" of its traditional synth engine.

* You can have a second -or third- noise source by modulationg a sine oscillator by itself ( or by another sine oscillator )( 1rst switch the MOSC 1 or 2 to sine, then modulate in one of the matrixes ) FM can produce a variety of different noise sources.

* Yes you're right, we forgot to add the 2 LFOs as modulation sources in the Macro modulator This should have been done for a long time, but for a reason or another, it seems it went well hidden under the pile. Sorry for that, it will be done in one of the next beta I think.

* Samples : With cross synthesis, you can *impose* some of the characteristics/shapes of the sample ( like a ... clap sample) to analog oscillators. It gives interesting results, because the *analog* oscillator keeps on beeing *alive*, but inherits some of the characteristics of the sample. Its different from the sample, but its different from the raw oscillator as well. Its hybrid, but it has a 'life'. Of course you have to tweak carefully the VCA and VCF EVs after that. You can also modulate other things using the sample, like the LFO speed for example, or well, anything.

* I always forgot to mention it, but StiX va engine is sample accurate also. Wich means very tight synchro. Not the case of all VA engines, for those, like me, who also enjoy making percussive/drum sounds with *regular* synthesizers.

all this is very encouraging, and will allow for possible "new" percussion sounds that we're not even thinking about. again, i have much faith in this "drum machine". hate the name though. seriously. oh well... and those "vents" or whatever on the GUI are silly and disorienting.

here's a question - would you rather sell (for example) 75 units at $200 each, or 300 units at $100 each?

[Lotuzia]

....

* You can have a second -or third- noise source by modulationg a sine oscillator by itself ( or by another sine oscillator )( 1rst switch the MOSC 1 or 2 to sine, then modulate in one of the matrixes ) FM can produce a variety of different noise sources.

* Yes you're right, we forgot to add the 2 LFOs as modulation sources in the Macro modulator This should have been done for a long time, but for a reason or another, it seems it went well hidden under the pile. Sorry for that, it will be done in one of the next beta I think.

* Samples : With cross synthesis, you can *impose* some of the characteristics/shapes of the sample ( like a ... clap sample) to analog oscillators. It gives interesting results, because the *analog* oscillator keeps on beeing *alive*, but inherits some of the characteristics of the sample. Its different from the sample, but its different from the raw oscillator as well. Its hybrid, but it has a 'life'. Of course you have to tweak carefully the VCA and VCF EVs after that. You can also modulate other things using the sample, like the LFO speed for example, or well, anything.

* I always forgot to mention it, but StiX va engine is sample accurate also. Wich means very tight synchro. Not the case of all VA engines, for those, like me, who also enjoy making percussive/drum sounds with *regular* synthesizers.

all this is very encouraging, and will allow for possible "new" percussion sounds that we're not even thinking about. again, i have much faith in this "drum machine". hate the name though. seriously. oh well... and those "vents" or whatever on the GUI are silly and disorienting.

......

Yes The Sample engine was available around 3 weeks before StiX release. But many cross synthesis options had rather violent bugs, so a lot of time was dedicated to debug it, and also to integrate the factory sample library, wich is all original,but also limited in size ( to avoid big DL times for people demoing StiX, also the idea is that people will feed StiX with their own samples ). The Sine operators were only truly available just one week before the release of the first public beta. Well all that to say that very few time could be dedicated to explore these different possibilities. But over time, these possibilities will be explored, and new presets added.

Lot vents The vents will be populated in the next betas. Atm the left vent will include the 3 -now horizontal- switch buttons for the sequencer pages. This will give more room for the sequencer grid also. And the right vent will display important info about the currently selected drumpad, like the *recommended Gate Time* for this drumpad. I think it's very important to get this info at once for users, because the synthesis engines and the Sequencer Gate Time parameters are intimately tied. All this could change, but that's what we are considering at the moment.

[Lotuzia]

here's a question - would you rather sell (for example) 75 units at $200 each, or 300 units at $100 each?

Lol the one billion dollar question

What do you want ? The regular answer of the 'commercial_marketing_expert_that_I'm__not' or something that can please verybody ?

So the answer of the expert would probably be 75 units : Less users, less support. sUpport takes time. Time is money. Doesnt that sound elitist ? Or is it just maths ?

The answer that would please everybody : 1500 units at 2 dollars each. It never works in the real world, but who cares ? It's pleasant to hear.

A plug in price -ime- just reflects the amount of time that was necessary to create it. And StiX well .......... just took an awful time.

And, finally, my answer : Currently with the 50% discount, it's neither 200 nor 75.

It's currently 99$.

SoOooOOo ..... if you guys could help us reach the 5000 units bar, it would ensure that a lot of passionate and dedicated time would be possible for StiX further developments . And that's all. Bad sales mean longer development times. average sales mean normal development times, and very good sales mean accelerated development. (Then tbh it's all made with passion. If it was only for the money, I had much better revenues when I teached database conception and development.)

[Lotuzia]

A bit of music ? Some different sounds, patterns, inspiration.

StiX Rio

StiX Kingston

StiX Moscow

[Numanoid]

The answer that would please everybody : 1500 units at 2 dollars each. It never works in the real world, but who cares ?

It doesn't work? So how the devs of apps for iPad survive?

[mcbpete]

Quick question regarding drum triggering (might be available and I'm just missing the setting in a menu!) - Would it be possible to have an option of making the buttons at the top of the screen (BD, SNARE, HH CL, HH OP .... etc.) trigger the drum assigned to that particular pad. At the moment I guess you could either use the midi keyboard on the bottom right (though I tend to get mixed up over what drum is assigned to which midi note - could they maybe be labelled down there?), or put into a sequence but it'd be great to have instant access to that particular drum hit by just pressing any of the drum pads at the top.

[Lotuzia]

Quick question regarding drum triggering (might be available and I'm just missing the setting in a menu!) - Would it be possible to have an option of making the buttons at the top of the screen (BD, SNARE, HH CL, HH OP .... etc.) trigger the drum assigned to that particular pad. At the moment I guess you could either use the midi keyboard on the bottom right (though I tend to get mixed up over what drum is assigned to which midi note - could they maybe be labelled down there?), or put into a sequence but it'd be great to have instant access to that particular drum hit by just pressing any of the drum pads at the top.

Just right click on them

Virtual midi kb or real one : The drumpads follow more/less the GM convention, altered so that it fit on one octave ( So Crash is on A, Perc 1/2 on C#,D#, and misc on E ) Place is very short to name them, but we'll see.

[mcbpete]

Just right click on them

You're a star - Thank you !

[Kindred]

The answer that would please everybody : 1500 units at 2 dollars each. It never works in the real world, but who cares ?

It doesn't work? So how the devs of apps for iPad survive?

I've got no horse in this race, however just reading this I thought I should comment.

Firstly, a company developing iPad apps most certainly could not survive on $3000 total gross sales for an app (and then remember they lose 40% to Apple/Google and then taxes).

Secondly, iPad apps and VST drum machines have rather different market dynamics. This is the reason why music production gear (either h/w or s/w) has always been more expensive. This is why my daughter's laptop just cost me $600 and my Prism Orpheus cost $4000. The markets have different total potential size, meaning that the costs of development must be amortized across fewer units, as well as a higher unit cost of production due to a lack of economies of scale.

Or to use an example specific to iPads, it is why the Cubasis app costs $50 and a more "mass market" basic drum/loop app costs $5 - lower costs of development and less potential customers.

The cost of this plugin is what it is. The market then decides if this is a fair price and then the developers can react to the market's assessment and can lower the price. At that point, it really does become a discussion around "1000 x $50 is better than 50 x $200".

Which is why thread like this are a helpful way of providing feedback to a developer regarding what they perceive to be fair value considering the quality of the plugin. For me, Tone2 is a classic example. I personally think their plugins are more than double the price they should be, based on my perception of each plugin. However Tone2 has maintained their expensive prices for a long time now, despite this common criticism, so it must be working for them. I doubt the developers at Tone2 are now sunning themselves on a tropical island on the windfall of soft synth sales, so they must have high costs they need to make back in sales.

TLDR; This is an interesting area of discussion (selling more synths at a lower price versus less synths at a higher price), however iPad apps are largely irrelevant to the discussion around a fair price for Stix.

[Lotuzia]

The answer that would please everybody : 1500 units at 2 dollars each. It never works in the real world, but who cares ?

It doesn't work? So how the devs of apps for iPad survive?

I've got no horse in this race, however just reading this I thought I should comment.

Firstly, a company developing iPad apps most certainly could not survive on $3000 total gross sales for an app (and then remember they lose 40% to Apple/Google and then taxes).

Secondly, iPad apps and VST drum machines have rather different market dynamics. This is the reason why music production gear (either h/w or s/w) has always been more expensive. This is why my daughter's laptop just cost me $600 and my Prism Orpheus cost $4000. The markets have different total potential size, meaning that the costs of development must be amortized across fewer units, as well as a higher unit cost of production due to a lack of economies of scale.

Or to use an example specific to iPads, it is why the Cubasis app costs $50 and a more "mass market" basic drum/loop app costs $5 - lower costs of development and less potential customers.

The cost of this plugin is what it is. The market then decides if this is a fair price and then the developers can react to the market's assessment and can lower the price. At that point, it really does become a discussion around "1000 x $50 is better than 50 x $200".

Which is why thread like this are a helpful way of providing feedback to a developer regarding what they perceive to be fair value considering the quality of the plugin. For me, **** is a classic example. I personally think their plugins are more than double the price they should be, based on my perception of each plugin. However Tone2 has maintained their expensive prices for a long time now, despite this common criticism, so it must be working for them. I doubt the developers at **** are now sunning themselves on a tropical island on the windfall of soft synth sales, so they must have high costs they need to make back in sales.

TLDR; This is an interesting area of discussion (selling more synths at a lower price versus less synths at a higher price), however iPad apps are largely irrelevant to the discussion around a fair price for Stix.

Thanks for this. Pretty much my pov too.

StiX is one year of development ( but 3 for me) with 4 people involved, some working around 14 hours a day or more to make it exist. And it's not the end of development. What could we honnestly do with 3000 kopecks minus VAT, then 50% taxes ? That's why I did not answer.

Also this : Nothing comparable to StiX in the Ipad world. And nothing comparable in the vsti world as well. Like I said my POV is that the price of a plug reflects the amount of work, R&D, etc put into it. I can't see any other measure.

[Note : I edited the name of the company you mentioned because you are entilted to your opinion, but I did not want to look like I commented it, or cautioned it in any way. I also have my opinions on certain prices, but due to deontology, they have to remain private]

[Lotuzia]

Just right click on them

You're a star - Thank you !

WIP : V0.97c ( private release atm ) Song Mode is now working OK minus some little things.

As I also have now more drumkits, more demos mixing StiX with other instruments will come, using the -very relaxing- Song Mode.

While working on this different kind of work, I can see that I make less 'busy' patterns.

One thing in StiX presets is that the first pattern is often very crowded because you can build intro/outros, variations, out of a single pattern by just muting drumpads on the mixer, or, better or just more dynamic/sophisticated, muting them live with the midi keyboard ( octave C2 ) But the current work will lead to a serie of less crowded presets.

Also we're simultaneously working on the problem of reflecting host tempo changes without waiting for the first beat of the next bar.

[mcbpete]

Also we're simultaneously working on the problem of reflecting host tempo changes without waiting for the first beat of the next bar.

That's awesome news thanks so much team

[Lotuzia]

Also we're simultaneously working on the problem of reflecting host tempo changes without waiting for the first beat of the next bar.

That's awesome news thanks so much team

Thanks Big work

[Lotuzia]

Brilliant user audio demo
M. Brussel StiX with other synths