Cubase SX issues

[Sascha Franck]

Ok, I got my copy on friday, not exactly familiar with it yet, but as a previous Cubase user (from 1.0/Atari to 3.6/PC) I find my ways around it.

Apart from all the multiple window madness (hell, can any of their testers even spell "ergonomics"?), there's some serious issues though.

1) MIDI timing!!!
WTF is going on there???
I've been reading numerous posts about this issue being fixed in 2.2, but it certainly isn't!
Yes, sometimes it WILL record properly, other times it just WON'T!
This isn't exactly reproduceable, but it happened on ALL the three machines I've installed SX on.

Here's what happens:
When changing anything in the audio setup, metronome preferences or pre/post-roll settings, chances are VERY high that after that your recorded MIDI is going ALL HAVOC!
As said, I experienced this on THREE different machines and the same happened to a mate of mine who just installed it as well (actually, we're the two teachers of the newly build media lab of the local music university).
I don't think I can't change much about it for now, just hoping to allways find one setting that won't mess up my timing.
But then, what a company has Steinberg become? I mean, do they test their shit at all? It seriously doesn't seem so.
This is so much f**ked up I was thinking about getting out a chainsaw and driving to Hamburg (it's only 150 kilometres).
And no, it CAN'T have anything to do with my setup as Logic and some other apps are simply performing brilliantly on the same 3 PCs.

2) Audio drivers
On one of my machines I'm using an EMI. In Logic I'm using the MME drivers at a latency of 6ms under XP. I'm doing so as the ASIO drivers aren't so hot (they're working though). In SX there's NO WAY to get the damn ASIO multimedia setup under 512 samples which equals 12ms. The ASIO drivers won't work at all but produce continuous buzz.
Hello? WDM isn't a bad driver format and it actually SHOULD work with SX as well - it just isn't!

3) Linked editors
How in the world can I "link" a key editor?
I've been looking through the manual for quite a while, haven't found a single hint.
Btw, for those that don't know what I'm on about:
Open your arrange/project page and a key editor at the same time. Now I want to select a part in my arrange and have it displayed immediately in my allready opened key editor.
Is that possible?
If yes, I'd be EXTREMELY thankful if someone would tell me how, if not, this is another reason top simply kill some of Steinberg's programmers.

4) Mixer
This actually is a question, maybe I just haven't found the right way yet.
When I have an audio or VST track in my arrange and select it, is there any way to go to the appropriate mixer channel (including all the plugins, sends and such) straight without clicking at least two buttons?
Again, in Logic I just select the track and my (floating/allways-on-top) mixer window will instantly display the appropriate channel with all the inserted plugins and sends, so all I need to do is to adjust right away or open a plugin UI top adjust there. Really, just ONE click that is required.

That was it for now. I'm sure I'm gonna plague you with more issues the next days.
So far I am WAY less then happy about the things I'm experiencing.
Actually I thought I'd made the best out of it, but all this multiple-window-and-even-more-jelly-beanish-button stuff is killing me!

Hmm... even two of the tutorial songs on the CD didn't playback properly. Is there really no way they would simply autoadjust to my audio I/O settings?
Again, that would just be uberlame...

[bluedad]

MIDI timing!!!

that's not good news!

[waveriderarts]

1) MIDI timing!!!

2) Audio drivers

3) Linked editors

4) Mixer

Yes, it is not so good, I think the same, but it is the most useful prog. on the PC for me at the moment.

1- do you see the word emulated in the midi port name? Easy fix, documented, sorry I do not have the link handy, check cubase.net

2- ASIO is ok with my emu drivers, maybe the 12ms (total) you get is because the latency compensation for the VSTs... normal. I have seen fixes for WDM drivers also.

3- shift select many tracks, open the key editor, now you can switch to edit one track or all (not what you meant I know...)

4- yea there is an awfull lot of window dragging, used to drive me nuts, but with time I found my way and now I wonder what was wrong with me...

I agree it is a pity, I have gripes with song structure tools, there ain't any, it is all linear, but I haven't found the software for me yet anyway...

But I am just starting to find super cool ways to use it live groovebox style, so it is going to be that or live4 or eXT...

[Erki]

About the midi record timing, go to "devices" - "device setup" - "windows midi" and click "reset" then "ok". That should fix the midi record timing for about 5-10 minutes. When the midi start to get messed up again repeat the above. It should work, it´s a hasssle though.

I recently bought a new midi controller and i am using those new midi drivers that came with the device instead of the old ones, and the midi timing problem is gone.

Anway the above should hopefully be a temp fix until you get it sorted.

[cold c]

3) Linked editors
How in the world can I "link" a key editor?
I've been looking through the manual for quite a while, haven't found a single hint.

File >> Preferences >> Editing >> Link Editors

4) Mixer
This actually is a question, maybe I just haven't found the right way yet.
When I have an audio or VST track in my arrange and select it, is there any way to go to the appropriate mixer channel (including all the plugins, sends and such) straight without clicking at least two buttons?
Again, in Logic I just select the track and my (floating/allways-on-top) mixer window will instantly display the appropriate channel with all the inserted plugins and sends, so all I need to do is to adjust right away or open a plugin UI top adjust there. Really, just ONE click that is required.

The round "e" button opens the instrument channel settings, but the same functionality doesn't exist on the MIDI track (it opens the MIDI channel settings), you can drag the automation track next to the MIDI track and use the "e" button on that for easy access.

One of the overlooked usability issues IMO.

EDIT: you can also click on the channel in the Mixer while the channel settings window is open, and the selected channel will be viewable in the window.

I never have MIDI timing problems with Cubase so I can't help you there (using USB MIDIsport 2x2 here) but there was an entire site dedicated to the issue, there is also a page in the "issues and solutions" area at http://forum.cubase.net/ , can't post the link as the site is too slow to respond at the moment.

[Sascha Franck]

WTF???
What sort of workarounds are THESE?
What if I just had someone recording a superb take but the 5-10 minutes of "fix time" are just over???
How will I EVER be able to explain that?
And, how will I be able to explain that to some students of mine?

Regarding the driver issue: It just can't be like that. As said, my EMI is performing flawlessly under all other programs.

Seriously, I will now ask Emagic for some Windows education versions of Logic (they still have those on stock and I'm entitled to order some) and work with that.
Yes, Logic has some bugs, some plugins won't work properly as well, featurewise the Windows version *seems* to be behind Cubase (even a lot), but the MOST BASIC things, such as dead-on MIDI and audio timing NEVER fail! These things are absolutely CRUCIAL and I am NOT going to get myself into any lengthy workarounds to fix this!

Who gives a f**king damn if you got latency compensation, MIDI plugins and what not if your timing is messed up in the first place???

This is all WAY worse than what I've expected... I expected a little drawback in ergonomics - but with that I could live. I can't live with f**ked up MIDI timing though, period!

Thanks for your answers though, folks - now I do at least know what to do.
A shame cause I only ordered 15 copies of SX for the university a few weeks ago.
Maybe I should've ordered Tracktion or anything else, but unfortunately as a university you need to follow some most common denominator rules.

[cold c]

WTF???
What sort of workarounds are THESE?

I posted a solution to one of your problems above.

[original flipper]

Hi

Being a Logic user I bought the AMT midi-interface which I beleive Stienberg mimicked with a Midex? interface - these are supossed to give rock solid timing - is this an option?

Flipper.

[DevonB]

MIDI is rock solid for me in SX 1 and 2. Just get rid of the [Emulated] crap, and your'e good as golden.

Devon

[waveriderarts]

WTF???

About the MIDI timing fix, really, it is a 30 second painless operation that solved everything for me, no big deal. It is just that the default install is not right for everyone.

[DevonB]

Hi

Being a Logic user I bought the AMT midi-interface which I beleive Stienberg mimicked with a Midex? interface - these are supossed to give rock solid timing - is this an option?

Flipper.

I've got the AMT8 *ON* Cubase SX, even on USB, and it's rock solid here.

Devon

[Sascha Franck]

File >> Preferences >> Editing >> Link Editors

Ahh!!!!! Thanks a million!
Finally *something* great. Hm... well, not actually that great because it'd be better if one could do this on a "per editor" base, but defenitely better than nothing. Works fine too.

The round "e" button opens the instrument channel settings, but the same functionality doesn't exist on the MIDI track (it opens the MIDI channel settings), you can drag the automation track next to the MIDI track and use the "e" button on that for easy access.

Hm, ok. Not bad, but IMO another workaround.
See, many (if not most SX) users are working with virtual instruments these days. As they are "producing audio directly" (just as any plain audio track), the functionality should at least be offered for VSTi tracks (in Logic it's just like that and I can tell you it's a time saviour). Will check though.

I never have MIDI timing problems with Cubase so I can't help you there (using USB MIDIsport 2x2 here)

Weird... as said, I got that on 3 PCs (MIDI interfaces: MT4, Edirol PCR A 30, Terratec EWS 88MT), while I never had any such issues with Logic running on the very same machines.

[DevonB]

Yes, Logic has some bugs, some plugins won't work properly as well, featurewise the Windows version *seems* to be behind Cubase (even a lot), but the MOST BASIC things, such as dead-on MIDI and audio timing NEVER fail! These things are absolutely CRUCIAL and I am NOT going to get myself into any lengthy workarounds to fix this!

<cough cough> Never heard audio buffers on Logic unload? Try it in Logic 6. Atmosphere does it REAL well. You'll hear the end of a chord from a previous playing of the song 'dump' its contents at the beginning of the song.

Also, if you start your recording at the beginning of your song without giving it at least 1 measure minimum, it cuts off the audio at the beginning. This was present in older versions of Logic as well.

Each of these hosts have problems in one way or another. Each usually have some workaround. You just need to be a little more patient with figuring and working through each of the issues, that's all.

Devon

[topaz]

im going to attempt to reply Sascha but
I fear you are actually half man half Logic
and no matter what you will never be happy,

get a mac FFS.



Midi Timing:

needs setting up the same way Logic does, Logic was never an out of the box sollution for me.

"asio overload"

Linked editors:(see other posts)

MME driver tweaks, just type in the amount
(not that I have used MME since 1812 (bc)


Mixer: (see other posts) 1 click and your there.

on a final note

SX2 is NOT Logic, thank f**k.



peace
topaz

Ok, I got my copy on friday, not exactly familiar with it yet, but as a previous Cubase user (from 1.0/Atari to 3.6/PC) I find my ways around it.

Apart from all the multiple window madness (hell, can any of their testers even spell "ergonomics"?), there's some serious issues though.

1) MIDI timing!!!
WTF is going on there???
I've been reading numerous posts about this issue being fixed in 2.2, but it certainly isn't!
Yes, sometimes it WILL record properly, other times it just WON'T!
This isn't exactly reproduceable, but it happened on ALL the three machines I've installed SX on.

Here's what happens:
When changing anything in the audio setup, metronome preferences or pre/post-roll settings, chances are VERY high that after that your recorded MIDI is going ALL HAVOC!
As said, I experienced this on THREE different machines and the same happened to a mate of mine who just installed it as well (actually, we're the two teachers of the newly build media lab of the local music university).
I don't think I can't change much about it for now, just hoping to allways find one setting that won't mess up my timing.
But then, what a company has Steinberg become? I mean, do they test their shit at all? It seriously doesn't seem so.
This is so much f**ked up I was thinking about getting out a chainsaw and driving to Hamburg (it's only 150 kilometres).
And no, it CAN'T have anything to do with my setup as Logic and some other apps are simply performing brilliantly on the same 3 PCs.

2) Audio drivers
On one of my machines I'm using an EMI. In Logic I'm using the MME drivers at a latency of 6ms under XP. I'm doing so as the ASIO drivers aren't so hot (they're working though). In SX there's NO WAY to get the damn ASIO multimedia setup under 512 samples which equals 12ms. The ASIO drivers won't work at all but produce continuous buzz.
Hello? WDM isn't a bad driver format and it actually SHOULD work with SX as well - it just isn't!

3) Linked editors
How in the world can I "link" a key editor?
I've been looking through the manual for quite a while, haven't found a single hint.
Btw, for those that don't know what I'm on about:
Open your arrange/project page and a key editor at the same time. Now I want to select a part in my arrange and have it displayed immediately in my allready opened key editor.
Is that possible?
If yes, I'd be EXTREMELY thankful if someone would tell me how, if not, this is another reason top simply kill some of Steinberg's programmers.

4) Mixer
This actually is a question, maybe I just haven't found the right way yet.
When I have an audio or VST track in my arrange and select it, is there any way to go to the appropriate mixer channel (including all the plugins, sends and such) straight without clicking at least two buttons?
Again, in Logic I just select the track and my (floating/allways-on-top) mixer window will instantly display the appropriate channel with all the inserted plugins and sends, so all I need to do is to adjust right away or open a plugin UI top adjust there. Really, just ONE click that is required.

That was it for now. I'm sure I'm gonna plague you with more issues the next days.
So far I am WAY less then happy about the things I'm experiencing.
Actually I thought I'd made the best out of it, but all this multiple-window-and-even-more-jelly-beanish-button stuff is killing me!

Hmm... even two of the tutorial songs on the CD didn't playback properly. Is there really no way they would simply autoadjust to my audio I/O settings?
Again, that would just be uberlame...

[Sascha Franck]

MIDI is rock solid for me in SX 1 and 2. Just get rid of the [Emulated] crap, and your'e good as golden.

So, how do I get rid of the [Emulated] crap?
On the machine(s) I will be using Cubase on (the university machines running through an Edirol PRC A30) ALL possible MIDI ports are labelled [Emulated].
Then: How could I get rid of them at all? There's no option but "reset" which won't delete anything.

Seriously, even if it *might* be an easy solution to do the reset procedure every 10 minutes, it's just nothing you can do during a professional recording session (or during the emulation (haha) of such a session).