KVR Audio

HitEmTrue · Post by **HitEmTrue** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:23 am

Last year I purchased a Scarlett USB interface for my macbook pro (don't ask me why), and experienced really bad midi delays between my synth and sounds in Mainstage/Logic. We are talking big delays here...1/4 second or more. Tried it on my wife's macbook, and same result. Both our machines are 2011 models.

I returned the unit and got a Focusrite Pro 26, hooked it up to firewire port, and didn't look back.

Until now. I want to get an interface for my son, who has a Windows machine. A pretty good machine that he built.

Are midi delays/latency with USB interfaces normal? Was this just an issue with our macbook machines?

If a USB device will do the job, such as a Scarlett 6i6, I would like to save the money over going with a firewire device. Also would not have to mess with installing a firewire card into the machine.

Thoughts appreciated!

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:36 am

NI Komplete 6 would be my choice ... Its only £139 till new year. I have the older NI AK1 and its been rock solid. No noticeable latency.

4damind · Post by **4damind** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:50 am

I would only stay away from M-Audio. I've used their Midisport and later the built-in Midi interface in a newer controller keyboard (Axiom series)... and they are crap with horrible timing.

ESI is another good option (they using this excellent Ploytec Midi chip) and are USB class compliant so you don't need to install a driver (a driver is available but only needed for multi-client support).
It's rock stable with excellent timing also if transferring sysex data and/or using multiple synth at the same time. I use a M8U XL since some years and I'm very happy with this interface.

HitEmTrue · Post by **HitEmTrue** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:59 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:NI Komplete 6 would be my choice ... Its only £139 till new year. I have the older NI AK1 and its been rock solid. No noticeable latency.

Yes, that is on my short list of choices.

Thanks to both of you.

UltimateOutsider · Post by **UltimateOutsider** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:34 pm

USB devices are generally fine, however Focusrite (particularly the Scarletts) has possibly the worst ASIO latency on the market. (ASIO is Windows only.)

My own recommendations for entry-level USB interfaces would be the Steinberg UR22 (they just announced a Mark 2 model that includes iPad support, but I don't know if that's out yet) or the Roland Duo-Capture EX. The Roland has more features (than the original UR22), the Steinberg has better specs, but both perform twice as well as the Scarletts on Windows. Both Roland and Steinberg have other models in the same product lines/price categories with more inputs/outputs.

(I have owned and used/benchmarked the Scarlett 2i2, Duo-Capture EX, and UR22.)

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:53 pm

Steinberg has the best ASIO drivers for achieveing low latency on a low budget interface. RME is the best but it's an expensive brand.

HitEmTrue · Post by **HitEmTrue** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:06 pm

thanks everyone...ordered Steinberg UR242. It should meet his needs nicely.

V'ger · Post by **V'ger** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:54 pm

For reference, here's a list of sound card reviews with latency tests.

Over at the Reaper forums is also [url=http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=36165[/url] where sound cards are tested for latency.

T-CM11 · Post by **T-CM11** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:16 pm

HitEmTrue wrote:Last year I purchased a Scarlett USB interface for my macbook pro (don't ask me why), and experienced really bad midi delays between my synth and sounds in Mainstage/Logic. We are talking big delays here...1/4 second or more. Tried it on my wife's macbook, and same result. Both our machines are 2011 models.

I returned the unit and got a Focusrite Pro 26, hooked it up to firewire port, and didn't look back.

Until now. I want to get an interface for my son, who has a Windows machine. A pretty good machine that he built.

Are midi delays/latency with USB interfaces normal? Was this just an issue with our macbook machines?

If a USB device will do the job, such as a Scarlett 6i6, I would like to save the money over going with a firewire device. Also would not have to mess with installing a firewire card into the machine.

Thoughts appreciated!

I assume you're talking about audio delay/latency? (midi delay is usually pretty small)
Afaik, latency with the Scarlett interfaces is quite ok, there must be something wrong with your system.

HitEmTrue · Post by **HitEmTrue** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:05 am

T-CM11 wrote: I assume you're talking about audio delay/latency? (midi delay is usually pretty small)
Afaik, latency with the Scarlett interfaces is quite ok, there must be something wrong with your system.

No. It was MIDI delay, and it was not small at all. It was not even playable. Same behavior with the Scarlett on two different macbook pros.

T-CM11 · Post by **T-CM11** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:49 am

HitEmTrue wrote:
T-CM11 wrote: I assume you're talking about audio delay/latency? (midi delay is usually pretty small)
Afaik, latency with the Scarlett interfaces is quite ok, there must be something wrong with your system.
No. It was MIDI delay, and it was not small at all. It was not even playable. Same behavior with the Scarlett on two different macbook pros.

So the audio outputs weren't going through the audio interface / PC when noticing that midi latency?

HitEmTrue · Post by **HitEmTrue** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 2:44 pm

T-CM11 wrote:
HitEmTrue wrote:
T-CM11 wrote: I assume you're talking about audio delay/latency? (midi delay is usually pretty small)
Afaik, latency with the Scarlett interfaces is quite ok, there must be something wrong with your system.
No. It was MIDI delay, and it was not small at all. It was not even playable. Same behavior with the Scarlett on two different macbook pros.
So the audio outputs weren't going through the audio interface / PC when noticing that midi latency?

I understand where you are coming from in questioning if it was midi latency or audio latency.

It could record audio just fine. I could monitor the incoming audio thru the DAW just fine.

I couldn't reliably record playing from a midi keyboard. The notes would hit the sequencer late, too.

A better test would have been to record audio from the external synth while recording the midi notes at the same time, so the MIDI delay could be measured. But it didn't occur to me until after a returned the unit.

I don't remember the audio latency numbers...but it wasn't anything crazy like I was experiencing with the MIDI. the MIDI was easily a quarter of a second.

T-CM11 · Post by **T-CM11** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:34 pm

Just trying to eliminate all possible causes.

If another USB interface works fine, then it was probably a problem with the driver or a hardware fault. It's certainly not a common issue with USB interfaces in general.

popflier · Post by **popflier** » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:21 am

HitEmTrue wrote:thanks everyone...ordered Steinberg UR242. It should meet his needs nicely.

Good to hear that you didn't go with the NI Komplete. There's another thread on here where people have talked about it. I owned one and quickly returned it. The problems with it are extensive and I am not the only ones who had major issues. I put the reference link below to the other post in case someone sees your thread. People need to be warned about the Komplete, the laundry list of issues it has, and Native Instruments lack of support for it. At one point there were so many issues with it that users started a petition to get NI to update the drivers because they wouldn't update the drivers. NI would tell people to get a powered USB hub, as the unit is USB powered, or plug every piece of equipment that you use to write music, including your computer components, into the same single outlet (bit of an issue if you only have a 15 amp circuit and more equipment than the single circuit can handle.) I posted a link to the NI user forum where all of these issues and so much more were posted about the Komplete on the post I made on the other KVR thread.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 4#p6341954

The only suggestion that I really would have made is to make sure to get a self-powered unit and not a USB powered unit, which you have done.

Having a powered unit helps a LOT with latency issues.

tehlord · Post by **tehlord** » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:53 am

rod_zero wrote:Steinberg has the best ASIO drivers for achieveing low latency on a low budget interface. RME is the best but it's an expensive brand.

I would concur with this.

I've had dozens of interfaces over the last few years (Saffire 6, Liquid 56, UR22, UR44, MR816x, RME Fireface 400 and more) and the RME interfaces blow everything else out of the water. I get sub 5ms latency using 128 samples on my crusty old i5 using my current RME Fireface 400. 2ms in and 3ms out if I take it down to 64 samples.

The Steinberg interfaces are close behind and the Focusrites were worst of all (although the models I had were miles better than the current Scarlett drivers).

MIDI latency and USB interfaces