Because I am as a new born baby in digitale music making I do need a little bit guidance, tips and as much help as I can get on this eternal voyage creativity can take me on, and please excuse my ignorance in the following theme.
So since I just have understood the power of technology and that all the sounds we know about can be made just with the touch of my fingertip, I figured I need to learn this wonderful magic, and I do have some tools to play with like a Novation Launchkey Mk2 ( midi keyboard with usb, just bought it) and a microsoft surface pro 3 touchpad with windows 10, my following questions is then;
Which music maker program would you recommend for a windows touchpad running windows 10? And would it be compatible with my launchkey mk2 midi keyboard?
I have fooled a little bit around in Ableton live 9 but I'm looking for something which is not so complicated for somebody completely new, also maybe there is a program which visually shows the instruments and makes sounds when I touch the screen, again together with the midi keyboard.
I'm looking for something where I can easily have a jam session, maybe record or and even more stuff which can be helpful in making sounds.
At last I'm sorry for my poor formulated request and forever grateful for the time you have showed it.
Best regards
A hopeless poet
I need you're knowledge beautiful people!
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livingforcreating livingforcreating https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=372615
- KVRer
- 1 posts since 11 Jan, 2016
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- KVRist
- 223 posts since 15 Jun, 2013
Hi livingforcecreativity,
Ableton Live is probably one of the easiest DAW to learn, so don't expect more easy stuff. If you are into this eternal creative never-ending wonderful magical voyage into technology and sound, then all the best to you; just take into consideration that inspiration is half of the game; the other half is realizing that inspiration, and for that you need to invest time in learning the technology.
Anyway, any DAW you choose will take some time to learn. Once you learn one, you will feel comfortable with others.
Now given that you have the Surface Pro, I would recommend Bitwig which I think is the first DAW that makes full use of the Surface Pro.
And stop saying you are ignorant, poor, and what not. Auto-killing yourself for the sake of it makes no sense.
Ableton Live is probably one of the easiest DAW to learn, so don't expect more easy stuff. If you are into this eternal creative never-ending wonderful magical voyage into technology and sound, then all the best to you; just take into consideration that inspiration is half of the game; the other half is realizing that inspiration, and for that you need to invest time in learning the technology.
Anyway, any DAW you choose will take some time to learn. Once you learn one, you will feel comfortable with others.
Now given that you have the Surface Pro, I would recommend Bitwig which I think is the first DAW that makes full use of the Surface Pro.
And stop saying you are ignorant, poor, and what not. Auto-killing yourself for the sake of it makes no sense.
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- KVRAF
- 4079 posts since 28 Jan, 2011 from MEXICO
Learning to use a DAW or a synth ins't easy, there are no shurtcuts. If you are really intersted you will do it little by little.
if you wanna learn synthesis check out syntorial http://www.syntorial.com/
If you wanna learn to use a DAW read the manual or check some video courses at this sites: groove3.com, lynda.com, macprovideo.com.
You can use third party virtual instruments inside Ableton Live, for a beginner I would recommend fabfilter twin2, FAW circle2 or Audio damage basic, the first two have demos:
http://www.fabfilter.com/products/twin- ... er-plug-in
http://www.futureaudioworkshop.com/circle/
http://www.audiodamage.com/effects/prod ... ?pid=AD033
if you wanna learn synthesis check out syntorial http://www.syntorial.com/
If you wanna learn to use a DAW read the manual or check some video courses at this sites: groove3.com, lynda.com, macprovideo.com.
You can use third party virtual instruments inside Ableton Live, for a beginner I would recommend fabfilter twin2, FAW circle2 or Audio damage basic, the first two have demos:
http://www.fabfilter.com/products/twin- ... er-plug-in
http://www.futureaudioworkshop.com/circle/
http://www.audiodamage.com/effects/prod ... ?pid=AD033
dedication to flying
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- KVRAF
- 6272 posts since 25 Mar, 2004
I was going to suggest this too, for a couple of reasons:dea-man wrote:I'll suggest Reaper.
Low cost to start using, and user templates that can adjust workflow to your particular style.
Cheers
-B
Berfab
So many plugins, so little time...
So many plugins, so little time...
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- KVRian
- 819 posts since 8 Nov, 2009
Also, the Reaper user forum is awesome, handy and friendly fast, 24/7!BERFAB wrote:I was going to suggest this too, for a couple of reasons:dea-man wrote:I'll suggest Reaper.
Low cost to start using, and user templates that can adjust workflow to your particular style.
Cheers
-B
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- KVRAF
- 1595 posts since 17 Nov, 2007 from Seattle, WA
I bought a Novation Launchkey mk2 recently.... Then returned it. Many of it's features did not work outside of Abletone Live, which is not my preferred DAW(I do Cubase & Cubasis). Given that you're already committed to the Launchkey(which seems otherwise basically good), then Ableton Live is probably your better option.
I've also got some experience trying out music on a tablet - an iPad Air2, in my case. I found that the touchscreen interface bogged down everything, made normal use a headache. Editing MIDI, parameters, and tweaking knobs was a horrible chore, very difficult, impossible to be precise. And unfortunately, precision is often necessary in computer-based music. Basic operation took much more time than with my old desktop. So I suspect your best move is to try and get a mouse plugged into your tablet, if that's possible. If you dont like the idea of losing mobility, bare in mind that a mouse on a thigh actually works decently good, and it doesn't need to be used all the time. But sadly, your fingers on a touchscreen cannot compete with a basic mouse. With some preparation and refinement, I'm sure it's possible to set up a workspace that dodges much of that tactile difficulty, but for average use, a mouse makes your work much more precise, and faster. And it's easier to learn stuff on, since you never know if you fat-fingered something on a touchscreen, but its a lot easier to know when you mis-clicked.
But if you're absolutely committed to touchscreen music, then consider buying software that's designed specifically for touchscreen only. Software made for both might be a bad compromise.
Backing up a bit, in the big picture the best thing you can ever do to become a better computer-based musician is: READ THE MANUALS. It sucks, it's tedious. But nothing, NOTHING beats it. You learn all the hidden tricks, you're prepared for unexpected turns of event, you learn much faster, you become confident faster. It is the single most efficient use of time that exists, when it comes to technical musicianship. #1 top move, king of king decisions. Read your manuals. Are you really committed to this project? Prove it - read the manual.
When I was starting, I bought a book: "Mastering Cubase 4." I'd read it on the bus to work. There's books like this available for most DAW's, certainly including Ableton Live. Or you could just go through the manual PDF's, your call. Although it wasn't an easy read, and it took discipline, and a month due to re-reading tough parts, I know that the book format worked for me. I've been confident ever since.
So for other software, you'll probably want something sample-based. Those sorts of programs make it much faster, easier, and intuitive to just touch & GO. For touch-screen, or at least on iOS, SampleTank's pretty good. You have access to a wide variety of instruments, it gives you lots of presets and pre-made patterns, which are set up in an intuitive but versatile manner. This is a very jam-friendly piece of software, comparatively. And it's cheap.
Finally, regarding the idea of jam-friendly - Computer music is, largely, not jam-friendly. With versatility comes complexity, unlike every instrument that was invented prior to the computer. Usually, preparation is required to make jamming possible, which in turn tends to require comfort and technical ability with your tools to get to that point of preparation. It's a natural outgrowth of having all these options at your finger-tips - It's very difficult to make things intuitive yet expansive. Computer music software tends to favor expansive over intuitive, with the expectation that people are willing to sit down and click at the programs for longer in return for being able to do more. And indeed, that's the case with every modern song you've heard of the radio: At some point, someone, or multiple people, spent hours, days, hunched over their mouse and keyboard clicking away at little details of that song. They weren't jamming, they couldn't. Because that's what it took to get that unique sound, or to get that polish, or to find that perfect harmony.
So what I'm getting at is that you should be prepared to become a technician, over time, in addition to being an artist. It's not going to be easy, and it's hard to find opportunities to just jump in, and jam. Those times do occur, usually after some meticulous setup or acclimatization, but generally they're the exception.
All that said, you're in a new world, full of new things. It'll be tough, but worth every second.
I've also got some experience trying out music on a tablet - an iPad Air2, in my case. I found that the touchscreen interface bogged down everything, made normal use a headache. Editing MIDI, parameters, and tweaking knobs was a horrible chore, very difficult, impossible to be precise. And unfortunately, precision is often necessary in computer-based music. Basic operation took much more time than with my old desktop. So I suspect your best move is to try and get a mouse plugged into your tablet, if that's possible. If you dont like the idea of losing mobility, bare in mind that a mouse on a thigh actually works decently good, and it doesn't need to be used all the time. But sadly, your fingers on a touchscreen cannot compete with a basic mouse. With some preparation and refinement, I'm sure it's possible to set up a workspace that dodges much of that tactile difficulty, but for average use, a mouse makes your work much more precise, and faster. And it's easier to learn stuff on, since you never know if you fat-fingered something on a touchscreen, but its a lot easier to know when you mis-clicked.
But if you're absolutely committed to touchscreen music, then consider buying software that's designed specifically for touchscreen only. Software made for both might be a bad compromise.
Backing up a bit, in the big picture the best thing you can ever do to become a better computer-based musician is: READ THE MANUALS. It sucks, it's tedious. But nothing, NOTHING beats it. You learn all the hidden tricks, you're prepared for unexpected turns of event, you learn much faster, you become confident faster. It is the single most efficient use of time that exists, when it comes to technical musicianship. #1 top move, king of king decisions. Read your manuals. Are you really committed to this project? Prove it - read the manual.
When I was starting, I bought a book: "Mastering Cubase 4." I'd read it on the bus to work. There's books like this available for most DAW's, certainly including Ableton Live. Or you could just go through the manual PDF's, your call. Although it wasn't an easy read, and it took discipline, and a month due to re-reading tough parts, I know that the book format worked for me. I've been confident ever since.
So for other software, you'll probably want something sample-based. Those sorts of programs make it much faster, easier, and intuitive to just touch & GO. For touch-screen, or at least on iOS, SampleTank's pretty good. You have access to a wide variety of instruments, it gives you lots of presets and pre-made patterns, which are set up in an intuitive but versatile manner. This is a very jam-friendly piece of software, comparatively. And it's cheap.
Finally, regarding the idea of jam-friendly - Computer music is, largely, not jam-friendly. With versatility comes complexity, unlike every instrument that was invented prior to the computer. Usually, preparation is required to make jamming possible, which in turn tends to require comfort and technical ability with your tools to get to that point of preparation. It's a natural outgrowth of having all these options at your finger-tips - It's very difficult to make things intuitive yet expansive. Computer music software tends to favor expansive over intuitive, with the expectation that people are willing to sit down and click at the programs for longer in return for being able to do more. And indeed, that's the case with every modern song you've heard of the radio: At some point, someone, or multiple people, spent hours, days, hunched over their mouse and keyboard clicking away at little details of that song. They weren't jamming, they couldn't. Because that's what it took to get that unique sound, or to get that polish, or to find that perfect harmony.
So what I'm getting at is that you should be prepared to become a technician, over time, in addition to being an artist. It's not going to be easy, and it's hard to find opportunities to just jump in, and jam. Those times do occur, usually after some meticulous setup or acclimatization, but generally they're the exception.
All that said, you're in a new world, full of new things. It'll be tough, but worth every second.
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- KVRAF
- 4079 posts since 28 Jan, 2011 from MEXICO
Also if you want to Jam Ableton Live is the only option with its extensive support for controllers and its session view, just check out stuff like the Push controller.
Live is the #1 DAW for this, used for tons of artist, and now it has a feature to sync it to iPad apps and other computers via wireless net.
Live is the #1 DAW for this, used for tons of artist, and now it has a feature to sync it to iPad apps and other computers via wireless net.
dedication to flying
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- KVRAF
- 16760 posts since 13 Oct, 2009
Slightly, off topic, but, the new Link, which is only in 9.5.1 beta right now, is just stelar. I used it for a jam session this last weekend and it just works. We both had abelton running on a wifi network and we were jamming beat oriented stuff so when timing's sloppy you can really hear it. It was rock solid and allows either computer to adapt the tempo. This is really useful for DJ style playing where you want either instance to act as master depending on context.rod_zero wrote:Also if you want to Jam Ableton Live is the only option with its extensive support for controllers and its session view, just check out stuff like the Push controller.
Live is the #1 DAW for this, used for tons of artist, and now it has a feature to sync it to iPad apps and other computers via wireless net.
One thing that I've noticed is that trying to naively lock computers to old school midi clock is where problems arise. How an app handles processing the midi queue in real time matters quite a bit. I've noticed that Reaktor doesn't sync well to midi clock, but, if you use OSC to sync there is much less traffic being sent. The point is I think that link is using something like this, I suspect that it's just sending a heartbeat pulse at a much lower rate than midi clock and tempo information.
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- KVRAF
- 6179 posts since 29 Mar, 2003 from Location: Location
What I suggest is to NOT go with a full sequencer program like 'LIVE' or others, but use what is called a chainer or stacker.
These programs 'host' your instruments and effects, and supply audio mixer controls,audio recording and MIDI interfacing.
You can record what your playing and save it as a .wav file. You can record what you`ve played and play that back while playing along.
You can easily assign the knobs and faders of your keyboard controller to the knobs of the VST effects and instruments with a couple of mouse clicks.(midi learn)
The instruments it accepts are VSTi and the effects are VST. There are many freeware available;
http://www.kvraudio.com/q.php?search=1&q=free
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 1&t=177407
I own and love 'Chainer';
http://www.xlutop.com/html/chainer.html
Demo available with a couple limitations.(save to .fxb/.fxp and audio record)
-VSTi with virtual keyboards;
http://www.kvraudio.com/q.php?search=1&q=keyboard
Everything that is not OSX or MAC will run on Win10.
Any instrument that shows a keyboard in the picture or says there is one available but hidden, will be playable with your finger touch screen.
EDIT - you haven`t talked about whether or not you have a music specialized sound hardware interface. You can use the Win10 audio. The Xlutop 'Chainer' will only work with an ASIO driver. You can install and use 'ASIO4ALL' free driver and then Chainer will see that driver.
http://www.asio4all.com/
These programs 'host' your instruments and effects, and supply audio mixer controls,audio recording and MIDI interfacing.
You can record what your playing and save it as a .wav file. You can record what you`ve played and play that back while playing along.
You can easily assign the knobs and faders of your keyboard controller to the knobs of the VST effects and instruments with a couple of mouse clicks.(midi learn)
The instruments it accepts are VSTi and the effects are VST. There are many freeware available;
http://www.kvraudio.com/q.php?search=1&q=free
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 1&t=177407
I own and love 'Chainer';
http://www.xlutop.com/html/chainer.html
Demo available with a couple limitations.(save to .fxb/.fxp and audio record)
-VSTi with virtual keyboards;
http://www.kvraudio.com/q.php?search=1&q=keyboard
Everything that is not OSX or MAC will run on Win10.
Any instrument that shows a keyboard in the picture or says there is one available but hidden, will be playable with your finger touch screen.
EDIT - you haven`t talked about whether or not you have a music specialized sound hardware interface. You can use the Win10 audio. The Xlutop 'Chainer' will only work with an ASIO driver. You can install and use 'ASIO4ALL' free driver and then Chainer will see that driver.
http://www.asio4all.com/
Last edited by annode on Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
....................Don`t blame me for 'The Roots', I just live here. 
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- KVRAF
- 25849 posts since 20 Jan, 2008 from a star near where you are
I recommend Stagelight
It is good for newbies, but got enough power to last when getting more experienced. It loads VST and VSTis which is a big bonus
It works great on touch screens
It costs very little
http://us.openlabs.com/
It is good for newbies, but got enough power to last when getting more experienced. It loads VST and VSTis which is a big bonus
It works great on touch screens
It costs very little
http://us.openlabs.com/
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- KVRAF
- 16760 posts since 13 Oct, 2009
What style of music are you interested in?
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- KVRAF
- 1986 posts since 29 Apr, 2010 from NYC
as others have said, there is no shortcut. you already have a launchkey and ableton live...so you might as well invest time in those.
learning a daw is very time consuming. theres no way around it. one daw is not "better" than another...its just a matter of personal workflow preference. it may be that you just dont get along with ableton...but it may also be that you get along great with it. considering that you are starting out from scratch...and you already have the tools...i think you should just stick with those tools.
once you get your head around them...then you can consider trying out other daws and keyboards, but i would definitely hold off on that for a while. bouncing around now would make things even more confusing and difficult...IMHO. although...i will say...if after a couple of months, you find yourself still struggling with the basic operations of the daw...perhaps thats just the wrong daw for you.
i also think that touchscreen capabilities sound great in theory, but arent really that helpful in practical use. so, if i were you...i wouldnt worry about that right now.
for me...it took several years before i was able to make sounds come out of my computer that were a reasonable approximation of what i heard in my head.
learning a daw is very time consuming. theres no way around it. one daw is not "better" than another...its just a matter of personal workflow preference. it may be that you just dont get along with ableton...but it may also be that you get along great with it. considering that you are starting out from scratch...and you already have the tools...i think you should just stick with those tools.
once you get your head around them...then you can consider trying out other daws and keyboards, but i would definitely hold off on that for a while. bouncing around now would make things even more confusing and difficult...IMHO. although...i will say...if after a couple of months, you find yourself still struggling with the basic operations of the daw...perhaps thats just the wrong daw for you.
i also think that touchscreen capabilities sound great in theory, but arent really that helpful in practical use. so, if i were you...i wouldnt worry about that right now.
for me...it took several years before i was able to make sounds come out of my computer that were a reasonable approximation of what i heard in my head.
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- KVRAF
- 1595 posts since 17 Nov, 2007 from Seattle, WA
This is an interesting route. I see the merit in it, but I'm not sure I agree. Seems to me like learning the chainer has a similar initial learning curve to a DAW, it just ends sooner. But if he chose to go into more depth, he'd have to re-do the learning curve all over again, but with no significant head start, to get into a proper DAW.annode wrote:What I suggest is to NOT go with a full sequencer program like 'LIVE' or others, but use what is called a chainer or stacker.
These programs 'host' your instruments and effects, and supply audio mixer controls,audio recording and MIDI interfacing.
On the other hand, if the chainer's behavior is closer to what he wants out of music, then it'd be the right option. I don't know, as I'm not very familiar with this program type. Sounds like my prior suggestion, SampleTank, might be similar? Just guessing.
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- KVRAF
- 6179 posts since 29 Mar, 2003 from Location: Location
Yeah, Sampletank good choice too. He had no inclination for learning a seqr but wanted to jam, so I suggested a chainer or now a 'standalone' would also be a good choice.
Seems he, livingforcreating is not at all appreciative since he hasn`t come back to thank us for helping him out. This was his only post...I should have know.
Seems he, livingforcreating is not at all appreciative since he hasn`t come back to thank us for helping him out. This was his only post...I should have know.
....................Don`t blame me for 'The Roots', I just live here.