Coming to SONAR in Spring 2016

[VariKusBrainZ]

They should ditch midi and invent their own standard, instead of keyboards we should compose music with Ego detectors.

This thread has become hilarious.
Going back to the over used Automobile analogy, do you complain when every year manufacturers copy each other and make cars with 4 wheels strapped to a chassis?!

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I don't care about DAW's borrowing ideas from other DAW's in the slightest. Cakewalk completely nixed the browser and docking features from Studio One, but who cares. Not me. The only problem I have with it is how poorly I felt they did it. The console in Sonar is HUGE, and doesn't scale, so why on Earth would I ever want to dock it unless I had a 55" screen? That's my beef with it.

My perfect DAW would look something like:

1. Reaper's CPU/engine/routing flexibility/varispeed
2. Studio One's stability and general workflow, ease of use
3. Sonar's PRV and Smart Tool
4. Pro Tools Mixer features (but scalable or vector based)
5. Cubase's notation/scoring features

...if Cakewalk or Reaper or Presonus or whoever want to look around at what the competition is doing to make their own DAW even better, fine by me. First company to the perfect DAW wins!

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

All that said above, I do like some of the features Cakewalk has recently implemented, which addressed some of my biggest complaints with Sonar (routing improvements, recording VSTi to audio in real time, etc.) along with some nice unexpected stuff like plugin upsampling on render (which I don't think anyone else does - but other DAW's should steal).

If Cakewalk could just make the console view something that can scale up or down based on the window/dock size, and narrowed down some UI elements like the giant toolbar or wide console channels (version 8.5 was so much better on both fronts), they'd really be on to something.

Most important though is stability. Every time a new release comes out, I check the notes to see if they fixed the random "Disk may be full" error message, or did anything about Cakewalk hanging onto the ASIO driver after a crash, or the "disappearing Sonar" thing where in a split second you'd be on your desktop with no warning, Sonar gone. Haven't seen any specific reference to these. Another huge issue for me, was how easily corrupted Sonar projects could get. If they continue to add new features at the pace they have been, but can address some of the more fundamental stuff (i.e. stability) at the same time, then great.

All in all, I see positive updates/signs coming from Cakewalk and hope that continues. I have much more positive feeling about Cakewalk under Gibson, than I ever did with Cakewalk under Roland. Who knows, maybe I'll even check out Sonar again in another few releases.

[acYm]

I'll just say, for the hell of it, that when I decided to get a second daw, after 10 years of using Sonar, I tried Studio One, gave it a good fair shake, full of enthusiasm over Teddy Riley's endorsement, and it felt in every possible way like a cheap, poor man's sonar, a vulgar parody. I'll never understand either the hype around that daw or why anyone at all would choose that over either sonar, cubase, logic, or possibly even pro tools. Just my 2c.

As for Cakewalk, it looks like they feel like innovating again. I'm happy with Platinum, I just wish they'd sell Z3ta to someone who cares.

[AROSSA [Cakewalk]]

The new “track flyout”，new GUI(currently,it's bit of messy)，melodyne 4 integration enhancement(Studio one do a good paradigm,so Sonar should be better )… sounds great for me!

We've actually had Melodyne Essential integrated into SONAR via ARA since SONAR X3 Studio and Producer. Last year we also improved the ARA integration and added the second ARA plugin ever, Drum Replacer.

[clintmartin]

Sonar Platinum is a very strong product. I have paid up, and I'm a very happy customer.

[jinotsuh]

All that said above, I do like some of the features Cakewalk has recently implemented, which addressed some of my biggest complaints with Sonar (routing improvements, recording VSTi to audio in real time, etc.) along with some nice unexpected stuff like plugin upsampling on render (which I don't think anyone else does - but other DAW's should steal).

If Cakewalk could just make the console view something that can scale up or down based on the window/dock size, and narrowed down some UI elements like the giant toolbar or wide console channels (version 8.5 was so much better on both fronts), they'd really be on to something.

Most important though is stability. Every time a new release comes out, I check the notes to see if they fixed the random "Disk may be full" error message, or did anything about Cakewalk hanging onto the ASIO driver after a crash, or the "disappearing Sonar" thing where in a split second you'd be on your desktop with no warning, Sonar gone. Haven't seen any specific reference to these. Another huge issue for me, was how easily corrupted Sonar projects could get. If they continue to add new features at the pace they have been, but can address some of the more fundamental stuff (i.e. stability) at the same time, then great.

All in all, I see positive updates/signs coming from Cakewalk and hope that continues. I have much more positive feeling about Cakewalk under Gibson, than I ever did with Cakewalk under Roland. Who knows, maybe I'll even check out Sonar again in another few releases.

I have been a Cakewalk user since PA9, I no longer use it as my main DAW having moved over to Studio One 3 after trying it out upon release, I have no idea what previous releases were like, never used or tried versions prior to version 3, but for my money Studio One 3 is totally awesome.

But to my point, I have never come across those issues you describe (highlighted above). Sonar has been a solid, stable platform in the time I have used it, so those issues you describe seem totally foreign to me, not doubting you, but perhaps you should give it a try again. I extended my membership for Platinum for another 12 months. even though I don't use it much now, only to check out how it is going and on the chance that it implements those features that have drawn me to Studio One 3. Although I don't think I will be leaving Studio One 3 any time soon.

[jinotsuh]

All that said above, I do like some of the features Cakewalk has recently implemented, which addressed some of my biggest complaints with Sonar (routing improvements, recording VSTi to audio in real time, etc.) along with some nice unexpected stuff like plugin upsampling on render (which I don't think anyone else does - but other DAW's should steal).

If Cakewalk could just make the console view something that can scale up or down based on the window/dock size, and narrowed down some UI elements like the giant toolbar or wide console channels (version 8.5 was so much better on both fronts), they'd really be on to something.

Most important though is stability. Every time a new release comes out, I check the notes to see if they fixed the random "Disk may be full" error message, or did anything about Cakewalk hanging onto the ASIO driver after a crash, or the "disappearing Sonar" thing where in a split second you'd be on your desktop with no warning, Sonar gone. Haven't seen any specific reference to these. Another huge issue for me, was how easily corrupted Sonar projects could get. If they continue to add new features at the pace they have been, but can address some of the more fundamental stuff (i.e. stability) at the same time, then great.

All in all, I see positive updates/signs coming from Cakewalk and hope that continues. I have much more positive feeling about Cakewalk under Gibson, than I ever did with Cakewalk under Roland. Who knows, maybe I'll even check out Sonar again in another few releases.

I have been a Cakewalk user since PA9, I no longer use it as my main DAW having moved over to Studio One 3 after trying it out upon release, I have no idea what previous releases were like, never used or tried versions prior to version 3, but for my money Studio One 3 is totally awesome.

But to my point, I have never come across those issues you describe (highlighted above). Sonar has been a solid, stable platform in the time I have used it, so those issues you describe seem totally foreign to me, not doubting you, but perhaps you should give it a try again. I extended my membership for Platinum for another 12 months. even though I don't use it much now, only to check out how it is going and on the chance that it implements those features, or similar that have drawn me to Studio One 3. Although I don't think I will be leaving Studio One 3 any time soon.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

All that said above, I do like some of the features Cakewalk has recently implemented, which addressed some of my biggest complaints with Sonar (routing improvements, recording VSTi to audio in real time, etc.) along with some nice unexpected stuff like plugin upsampling on render (which I don't think anyone else does - but other DAW's should steal).

If Cakewalk could just make the console view something that can scale up or down based on the window/dock size, and narrowed down some UI elements like the giant toolbar or wide console channels (version 8.5 was so much better on both fronts), they'd really be on to something.

Most important though is stability. Every time a new release comes out, I check the notes to see if they fixed the random "Disk may be full" error message, or did anything about Cakewalk hanging onto the ASIO driver after a crash, or the "disappearing Sonar" thing where in a split second you'd be on your desktop with no warning, Sonar gone. Haven't seen any specific reference to these. Another huge issue for me, was how easily corrupted Sonar projects could get. If they continue to add new features at the pace they have been, but can address some of the more fundamental stuff (i.e. stability) at the same time, then great.

All in all, I see positive updates/signs coming from Cakewalk and hope that continues. I have much more positive feeling about Cakewalk under Gibson, than I ever did with Cakewalk under Roland. Who knows, maybe I'll even check out Sonar again in another few releases.

I have been a Cakewalk user since PA9, I no longer use it as my main DAW having moved over to Studio One 3 after trying it out upon release, I have no idea what previous releases were like, never used or tried versions prior to version 3, but for my money Studio One 3 is totally awesome.

But to my point, I have never come across those issues you describe (highlighted above). Sonar has been a solid, stable platform in the time I have used it, so those issues you describe seem totally foreign to me, not doubting you, but perhaps you should give it a try again. I extended my membership for Platinum for another 12 months. even though I don't use it much now, only to check out how it is going and on the chance that it implements those features that have drawn me to Studio One 3. Although I don't think I will be leaving Studio One 3 any time soon.

I really do plan on checking it out again once some of my UI concerns are dealt with (hopefully the skinning will help). I launched Sonar X2 today and the giant UI instantly reminded me of how hard I found working in later Sonar releases. Why does the toolbar take up so much space? Why do they use the standard "Windows" with the thick old-school title bar (with the minimize, maximize buttons) around everything? Why are the channels in the console so big and so wide? I suspect this was done for touch screen users, but what percentage of Sonar users actually operate it on a touch screen with their hands? A small minority I'm sure. There's just so much wasted space in the X-series GUI, that it really impedes workflow compared to the Sonar 8.5 GUI. Sonar has [probably uninintentionally] become a great DAW if your eyesight isn't the best anymore, but the "everything huge" approach of X1 and on was the final straw when it came to Sonar and me. Compare the sleekness of the S1 UI with Sonar and the difference are shocking.

As to the specific issues I mentioned: I see they've squashed a lot of bugs recently, and tightened up the engines, so hopefully these things have been resolved. That said, not everyone got that stuff, but I wasn't alone either (these issues would pop up semi-regularly on the Cakewalk forums so I knew I wasn't alone). I started using Cakewalk in the PA9 days, and was there for the changeover to Sonar (upgrading frequently). The issues I described followed me across multiple PC's, and many, many verisons of Sonar.

[LawrenceF]

You forgot the last bit, though, which changes the context of what they were 'scared' of somewhat.

As if they had peeped through our window...

which just extended the idea of 'we invented stuff that somehow everyone else is copying'.

But you have to take that in context also. He didn't say they believed that, he said... "as if".

Daw discussions are often like political "opposition research" where people seek out things to use for whatever agenda they have, and pretty much ignore the rest. The most puzzling part of it all is that it doesn't even matter ... it's just random software that nobody has a really critical stake in. We argue about these things like these companies run by people we've never even met are our sisters or something.

Everybody copies somebody, at some point. Afaik, there's no trophy or award for who copies the least.

"And the 2016 Grammy for the least amount of feature ripping goes to.... "

Does it strike anyone else as odd that the people who criticize the creators of literally everything, never themselves actually create anything? They just always know how to do everything better... but they never actually make anything useful, just criticize other people who do.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Does it strike anyone else as odd that the people who criticize the creators of literally everything, never themselves actually create anything? They just always know how to do everything better... but they never actually make anything useful, just criticize other people who do.

Well, to be fair, they create criticism. Professional critics are a real thing.

[whyterabbyt]

neffermind

[cryophonik]

Why are the channels in the console so big and so wide?

There's an option (check box in a drop-down menu) to make the channel strips narrow. I never use the wide strips.

edit: see the right monitor - 30 narrow strips visible at once on a 22-inch monitor.

[dorism]

All that said above, I do like some of the features Cakewalk has recently implemented, which addressed some of my biggest complaints with Sonar (routing improvements, recording VSTi to audio in real time, etc.) along with some nice unexpected stuff like plugin upsampling on render (which I don't think anyone else does - but other DAW's should steal).

If Cakewalk could just make the console view something that can scale up or down based on the window/dock size, and narrowed down some UI elements like the giant toolbar or wide console channels (version 8.5 was so much better on both fronts), they'd really be on to something.

Most important though is stability. Every time a new release comes out, I check the notes to see if they fixed the random "Disk may be full" error message, or did anything about Cakewalk hanging onto the ASIO driver after a crash, or the "disappearing Sonar" thing where in a split second you'd be on your desktop with no warning, Sonar gone. Haven't seen any specific reference to these. Another huge issue for me, was how easily corrupted Sonar projects could get. If they continue to add new features at the pace they have been, but can address some of the more fundamental stuff (i.e. stability) at the same time, then great.

All in all, I see positive updates/signs coming from Cakewalk and hope that continues. I have much more positive feeling about Cakewalk under Gibson, than I ever did with Cakewalk under Roland. Who knows, maybe I'll even check out Sonar again in another few releases.

I have been a Cakewalk user since PA9, I no longer use it as my main DAW having moved over to Studio One 3 after trying it out upon release, I have no idea what previous releases were like, never used or tried versions prior to version 3, but for my money Studio One 3 is totally awesome.

But to my point, I have never come across those issues you describe (highlighted above). Sonar has been a solid, stable platform in the time I have used it, so those issues you describe seem totally foreign to me, not doubting you, but perhaps you should give it a try again. I extended my membership for Platinum for another 12 months. even though I don't use it much now, only to check out how it is going and on the chance that it implements those features that have drawn me to Studio One 3. Although I don't think I will be leaving Studio One 3 any time soon.

I really do plan on checking it out again once some of my UI concerns are dealt with (hopefully the skinning will help). I launched Sonar X2 today and the giant UI instantly reminded me of how hard I found working in later Sonar releases. Why does the toolbar take up so much space? Why do they use the standard "Windows" with the thick old-school title bar (with the minimize, maximize buttons) around everything? Why are the channels in the console so big and so wide? I suspect this was done for touch screen users, but what percentage of Sonar users actually operate it on a touch screen with their hands? A small minority I'm sure. There's just so much wasted space in the X-series GUI, that it really impedes workflow compared to the Sonar 8.5 GUI. Sonar has [probably uninintentionally] become a great DAW if your eyesight isn't the best anymore, but the "everything huge" approach of X1 and on was the final straw when it came to Sonar and me. Compare the sleekness of the S1 UI with Sonar and the difference are shocking.

As to the specific issues I mentioned: I see they've squashed a lot of bugs recently, and tightened up the engines, so hopefully these things have been resolved. That said, not everyone got that stuff, but I wasn't alone either (these issues would pop up semi-regularly on the Cakewalk forums so I knew I wasn't alone). I started using Cakewalk in the PA9 days, and was there for the changeover to Sonar (upgrading frequently). The issues I described followed me across multiple PC's, and many, many verisons of Sonar.

I love the concept of Skylight - its so superior to Cubase's horrible windowing system - especially now they've tried to make the PC work like a Mac in C8, however I totally agree with everything you said about the supersized interface. Everything is ridiculously big you can't get a sense of where you are in your project and you end up scrolling around constantly. I agree I think its designed for touch users - do they even exist? Who'd want to work in a studio with their arms up touching a screen all day?? The fact Cakewalk were fannying around with touch features whilst X2 remained so unstable was the main reason I left - talk about the wrong priorities. Hopefully they will get their mojo back. Cakewalk were really innovative in the early days and Sonar was the best DAW on the market at one point IMHO. At the moment Cubase absolutely destroys it on features, maturity and stability. The amount of catching up they now have to do is scary but I wish them well. The more awesome DAWS we have the better

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Why are the channels in the console so big and so wide?

There's an option (check box in a drop-down menu) to make the channel strips narrow. I never use the wide strips.

edit: see the right monitor - 30 narrow strips visible at once on a 22-inch monitor.

I know about the narrow strips but don't like the limited functionality. Compare the Sonar 8.5 wide strips to the X series wide strips and there's a big difference. Compare the S1 wide strips to Sonar: the same.