Which chords can be used in this Vietnamese pentatonic scale?

[fantasyvn]

Could you pls help?
I'm studying this Vietnamese pentatonic scale: C D F G A .
Which chords can be used in this scale?
As I understand, the chords are based on the notes of the scale.
C: ?
D: D (D F A )
F: F (F A C)
G: ?
A: ?
Thank you for your kind help.

[nineofkings]

Pentatonic scales are usually used melodically. They don't necessarily determine which chords can be used.

[datroof]

That's just (what I would call) an F major pentatonic - nothing particularly Vietnamese about it. There's more than one way to approach your question. You can just look at the notes contained in your pentatonic scale - there are a couple of chords that can be built from those notes. But the approach I would recommend is to determine which 7-tone scales contain the 5 notes of your pentatonic scale, and then look at available chords from that source material (and that's going to give you strictly diatonic options, which leaves out some interesting choices). In this case C, F and Bb major scales, and C melodic minor scale all contain your 5 notes. Look at the chord choices made available by those 4 scales as a starting point.

[fmr]

If you want to make pentatonic music, you can't use chords. If you use chords, you no longer have pentatonic. Now, it's up to you to choose what you want to do.
BTW: That's a straightforward pentatonic mode. I'm not familiar with vietnamese music, but I'm sure there must be more at it than just a pentatonic mode (rhythms, instruments, etc.). So, if you want to mimic vietnamese, study how it is done, and with what. If you simply want to use a pentatonic mode, you don't need to travel so much - those exist in western folk music since ever.

[jopy]

That's just (what I would call) an F major pentatonic - nothing particularly Vietnamese about it.

The flavor of a mode (which is how Vietnamese musicians would use it, I presume) is hugely dependent on the root note, so if you keep hitting that C as home, those notes will sound quite different than an F major pentatonic.

Once you throw a Western style chord of any kind under this, it will lose any connection to the original sound, as noted elsewhere. Vietnamese music doesn't use "chords" as harmonic concepts. There are other forms of harmony in East Asian music, of course, but not chords.

[jancivil]

That's just (what I would call) an F major pentatonic - nothing particularly Vietnamese about it.

The flavor of a mode (which is how Vietnamese musicians would use it, I presume) is hugely dependent on the root note, so if you keep hitting that C as home, those notes will sound quite different than an F major pentatonic.

Once you throw a Western style chord of any kind under this, it will lose any connection to the original sound, as noted elsewhere. Vietnamese music doesn't use "chords" as harmonic concepts. There are other forms of harmony in East Asian music, of course, but not chords.

I'm familiar with pentatonic forms that resemble this scale. IE: that do 1, 2, 4 rather than 1, 2, 3. Not Vietnamese specifically but Japanese for example. So, I looked it up. As it turns out, it looks like (roughly, vis equal temperament) 1, 2, 4, 5, 6 is the very basis for Diêu Bac or "Northern mode".

http://lyrichord.com/linernotes/LAS7396US.pdf

So, you can call it something it isn't (and one supposes this other thing isn't particularly Vietnamese) behind I guess your preference for the familiar C D E over C D F. But that's not relevant.

I think even if you appropriated this entirely out of its cultural context the application of triads will make this particular choice useless (like it may as well be this other thing, major pentatonic). In the first place, your first triad or "I" doesn't pertain, there is no third from 'tonic'.

Now, people do 'major pentatonic' in country, blues, rock, jazz and even popular song, typically w. chord changes, and probably that we have five and not seven notes is discernable; but it's not 'pentatonic music' (such as the reference is here). And this 'pentatonic music' is not very like western music; in practice, which is founded in culture (and the intonations in their speech etc).

[datroof]

That's just (what I would call) an F major pentatonic - nothing particularly Vietnamese about it.

The flavor of a mode (which is how Vietnamese musicians would use it, I presume) is hugely dependent on the root note, so if you keep hitting that C as home, those notes will sound quite different than an F major pentatonic.

Once you throw a Western style chord of any kind under this, it will lose any connection to the original sound, as noted elsewhere. Vietnamese music doesn't use "chords" as harmonic concepts. There are other forms of harmony in East Asian music, of course, but not chords.

Like a lot inquiries in this forum, the original question can be interpreted in more than one way. Is it about pentatonic music, modal music, Asian music, or chord scales? Like a Rorschach test, the way you interpret and choose to answer can be revealing. I interpreted it as basically a chord scale question, which is more in alignment with my background and interests. Your mileage may vary.
To the OP: feel free to clarify your question (you used key words: "pentatonic", "Vietnamese", and "chords". Are you asking about pentatonic music, modal music, Asian music, or chord scales?).

[jancivil]

Well, like a lot of things a viewpoint was expressed as though a fact. That particular scale type is not particularly Vietnamese, as it is found to be basically the same basis in other localities. But finding it as a particular called a Vietnamese scale is supported as a fact, evidently. I'm not interpreting. I don't know what the OP wants, the matter is open-ended afaic. From my experience on this board, chances seem good they don't know what they want exactly. But, Vietnamese music is modal. Plus, if it's really 1-2-4 and no 3, making triads is not it.

[jancivil]

The question itself used specific terms. It's not any Rorshach inkblot. Now, it is the case that I find interpreting any and all questions into the more familiar terms (and then as in the other thread off an identical OP, listing every chord one can come up with) a bit tiresome, but if you find that the OP has nothing particularly Vietnamese or even modal in mind have fun with it. If my response reveals me as anything, I think someone at the beginning of their journey in music may as well hear about modal ideas, and that I find fitting everything on earth to the narrower view restrictive when it doesn't have to be.

[hauke]

Funny enough I just created a whole website to answer questions like "Which chords can be used in this scale?"
Little disclaimer: Generally I would also advice to be careful when using chords in non-western (particularly pentatonic) scales.

Anyway, the DIRECT answer can be found here now:
http://feelyoursound.com/scale-chords/c ... entatonic/

The Scottish Pentatonic scale uses exactly the notes C, D, F, G, A. My page will show you all the common chords that can be played just with theses scale notes.

PS: I found this scale by using the Scale Finder which is included in the full version of my software Sundog Scale Studio. Click on "Tools -> Scale Finder" and enter scale notes that should be included (you can also specify a root note if you like). Sundog will suggest several scales. I chose Scottish Pentatonic, because I needed a scale with five notes . More info here: http://feelyoursound.com/sundog/

Cheers,
Hauke

[fmr]

Funny enough I just created a whole website to answer questions like "Which chords can be used in this scale?"
Little disclaimer: Generally I would also advice to be careful when using chords in non-western (particularly pentatonic) scales.

Anyway, the DIRECT answer can be found here now:
http://feelyoursound.com/scale-chords/c ... entatonic/

The Scottish Pentatonic scale uses exactly the notes C, D, F, G, A. My page will show you all the common chords that can be played just with theses scale notes.

PS: I found this scale by using the Scale Finder which is included in the full version of my software Sundog Scale Studio. Click on "Tools -> Scale Finder" and enter scale notes that should be included (you can also specify a root note if you like). Sundog will suggest several scales. I chose Scottish Pentatonic, because I needed a scale with five notes . More info here: http://feelyoursound.com/sundog/

Cheers,
Hauke

How can you say these chords have their root in C:
Dmin7/C: C-3, D-3, F-3, A-3?
Fmaj/C: C-3, F-3, A-3?
The first one has the root in D, and the second has the root in F. C is simply the note in the bass. And you make the same mistake in several other chords, like calling F6: F-3, A-3, C-4, D-4. It is not - it is a Dm7 chord in the first inversion. Misconceptions

And why is C, D, F, G, A "Scottish Pentatonic"? It can also be Irish Pentatonic, Portuguese Pentatonic, Spanish Pentatonic, whatever. It is a pentatonic mode used pretty much everywhere.

[hauke]

How can you say these chords have their root in C:
Dmin7/C: C-3, D-3, F-3, A-3?
Fmaj/C: C-3, F-3, A-3?
The first one has the root in D, and the second has the root in F. C is simply the note in the bass. And you make the same mistake in several other chords, like calling F6: F-3, A-3, C-4, D-4. It is not - it is a Dm7 chord in the first inversion. Misconceptions

And why is C, D, F, G, A "Scottish Pentatonic"? It can also be Irish Pentatonic, Portuguese Pentatonic, Spanish Pentatonic, whatever. It is a pentatonic mode used pretty much everywhere.

Hmmm.. OK, I will look into that. Maybe it's a language misconception on my side then.

Regarding the "Scottish Pentatonic": Yes, it could be any other scale with these notes as well! I just picked Scottish Pentatonic, because it was the first scale that I saw that matched the notes exactly .

All the best,
Hauke