Fixed plugin locations discussion

[CinningBao]

I think we all have different principles when it comes to organising and structuring our plugin folders (not including AU since there is no directory structure to speak of) but I have recently come across a plugin which cannot be moved from it's root location.

After talking with the company I have discovered that they believe users fundamentally shouldn't be moving plugins around the file system. They are trying to invoke a new principle of forcing DAW manufacturers to introduce their own plugin management system to give users the ability to structure the plugin hierarchy as they see fit.

Quite honestly, I am furious that a company has decided to limit movement of the plugin file - it's my system! I'll put it where I want it!

How do you feel about this?

[do_androids_dream]

For a start the 'it's my system! I'll put it where I want it!' is a misconception. Just think it through..

I would say, get over it, install your plugins and make music..

[CinningBao]

Think what through? Computer is a tool. I configure my tool in the way I see fit - in the same way a carpenter gets used to the feel of his hand when holding the chisel, I become comfortable and familiar with my system.

I make music - it doesn't stop me.

This is the first time I've seen a plugin manufacturer stop me from organising the files I license from them where I see fit.

I know we don't actually own anything but the hardware - all software is licensed for use, not ownership. But stopping me from moving these licensed elements around when the framework they are building upon doesn't force that restriction.. it's like a layer of control I don't like.

It urks me. but doesn't stop me writing music

[do_androids_dream]

Exactly - computer is a tool first and foremost. You wouldn't buy a car and then get wound up because you can't keep engine parts in the place you choose - there's the possibility that things won't work. I don't blame devs for using a fixed path - it lessens the chance for problems. You don't get to choose where all the files for the OS goes do you?

[CinningBao]

I see it slightly differently - as well as a system user, I am my system administrator - I perform repairs and fixes of my system.
If I were into car repair, I would keep all my wrenches in the same box, possibly divided by size and strength. I wouldn't appreciate it if the manufacturer said I have to place all my wrenches from his company in a special stand, and if I don't put them there they won't work.

This would never happen in the real world. I would never want to move the chassis, or engine, to use your analogy against OS files - there's a reason they go there. But plugin folders are not as fixed as the OS - only by definition of their position in the file system.

I give up anyway - it seems most people are happy to lose little elements of control they have over their systems. I'm just old-school and think a user should also retain a certain amount of control over their system. Not have it slowly ripped away from beneath you.

[do_androids_dream]

there's a reason they go there.

You just said it right there. Most people I've come across who harp on about this fail to realise that there might be a very good reason for something going in a specific place. Almost always ignored in fact - and sometimes even anger inducing when pointed out. Being able to pick and choose where everything goes on your computer implies and requires an extremely thorough knowledge of how computers work. I think it's very sensible for a dev to assume that most users do not have this level of understanding - and play safe with a fixed location.

[whyterabbyt]

I don't blame devs for using a fixed path - it lessens the chance for problems.

No it doesnt. There's absolutely zero reasons a dynamically linked library needs to be located in a specific location.
Plugins are libraries, written to operate as extensions of the host. The DAW itself will almost certainly include libraries which are located in its own directory, as well as libarries which are provided by and part of the operating system, across many different locations. Operating systems are written to check multiple locations to load such libraries, and the actual location it 'thinks' it finds them in may actually be being redirected by symbolic links.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-gb/librar ... 85%29.aspx

The only reason a plugin would have 'problems' not being in an absolute hardcoded location is if the developer wrote it in such a way that it was incapable of being moved without failing. For one thing, its not supposed to be the plugin's 'decision' where it is, its decided by where the host looks.

[aMUSEd]

I don't care where they are on the system as long as plugin hosts let you use alternate paths because all my VST hosts (that allow custom paths) are pointed to a custom folder full of symlinks to the plugins anyway - which enables me to organise them exactly how I like (by subfolder) without having to move a single plugin.

[whyterabbyt]

Being able to pick and choose where everything goes on your computer implies and requires an extremely thorough knowledge of how computers work.

No, not if the software you're using is written to be adaptable to your own preference. Which, actually, isnt that hard.

The fact that some software doesnt give you that flexibility is not a sufficient rationale for being deprived of it. For example, the number of hosts which only offer one plugin path is ridiculous; its an artificial limitation with no technical basis.

You might as well argue that being able to pick and choose the routing of your tracks inside the DAW shouldnt be allowed because it implies and requires an extremely thorough knowledge of how your soundcard works, it makes about as much sense.

[No_Use]

Said it in another thread recently...
For VST2 plugins it obviously worked out fine for something like over a decade to let users choose where their plugins go.

Now with the introduction of VST3 Steinberg forces a fixed plugin location and honestly I don't like it at all, as my plugin folder always has been somewhere else than on the C: drive and I'd like to keep it this way.

(One reason being I try to keep my system partition as lean as possible, e.g. for faster backup purposes as I backup my system partition more regularily than the whole HD).

[do_androids_dream]

I don't care where they are on the system as long as plugin hosts let you use alternate paths because all my VST hosts (that allow custom paths) are pointed to a custom folder full of symlinks to the plugins anyway - which enables me to organise them exactly how I like (by subfolder) without having to move a single plugin.

As long as I can organise them in my DAW I don't care where they are on my computer. Life is too short to worry about this level of 'background' organisation. The only issue I can see to all this is considerations for backing up your plugins.

[CinningBao]

I dunno, I mean, most guy and gals here are used to organising their plugin directory structures, apart from Logic users. I can't believe more than 50% of the users here just install all plugins to defaults locations and leave them there. Maybe a poll would reveal this interesting statistic.

The company did say only one other user had made a similar request, so I may really be alone in this.

Sod it - enjoy your fixed plugin locations!

[do_androids_dream]

I dunno, I mean, most guy and gals here are used to organising their plugin directory structures, apart from Logic users. I can't believe more than 50% of the users here just install all plugins to defaults locations and leave them there. Maybe a poll would reveal this interesting statistic.

The company did say only one other user had made a similar request, so I may really be alone in this.

Sod it - enjoy your fixed plugin locations!

Of course, I use the facility to pick and choose plugin location to install where I want my plugins to reside (I just install everything to my default Steinberg vst folder) but I wouldn't be bothered if this was somehow not the case for a particular plugin. It doesn't strike me as an issue to start going into principles about.

[whyterabbyt]

I don't care where they are on the system as long as plugin hosts let you use alternate paths because all my VST hosts (that allow custom paths) are pointed to a custom folder full of symlinks to the plugins anyway - which enables me to organise them exactly how I like (by subfolder) without having to move a single plugin.

As long as I can organise them in my DAW

And if you cant? Not all DAWs let you customise the menus, some just use the folder structure.

[aMUSEd]

I don't care where they are on the system as long as plugin hosts let you use alternate paths because all my VST hosts (that allow custom paths) are pointed to a custom folder full of symlinks to the plugins anyway - which enables me to organise them exactly how I like (by subfolder) without having to move a single plugin.

As long as I can organise them in my DAW I don't care where they are on my computer. Life is too short to worry about this level of 'background' organisation. The only issue I can see to all this is considerations for backing up your plugins.

This can be useful too, particularly if you just have one DAW it shouldn't be too onerous to do this, however I have several but they all have the same organisation without having to do it per DAW, so less work overall and greater consistency.