how do you recognize when a song is going south?

[wrench45us]

and then what?

you know what I mean?
there's a good germ of an idea in there somewhere and you dig in and after a few hours of work, you listen fresh and you have to wonder just why and where things went wrong.

i've had some good luck recently going back over near complete projects and cleaning them up, but I've hit a brick wall with this last one. All weekend putting things in, taking them out, shifting things around. Trying this, trying that. I thought I was finally done with it last night and my wfe gives a listen and says, 'it's getting better' Hey, I thought it was done.

One problem is I can't get back to the original mood of the piece and now the mood changes during the song. And maybe it's cause the original mood of the piece was creeping me out, esp after working with it so long. Another problem was I tried all the little tricks that I'd had success with lately on other songs and that about ruined it.

I don't want to shelve it again. I really want to finish this, one or two others and clean out my project folders and have a fresh start.

[vurt]

try something new!
a sound you wouldnt normally use,an effect on the wrong channel.

[Equilibrium]

write away from the computer as much as you can. Then spend as little time on the computer as you can so you are inspired while you write. No one stays inspired for hours on end.

Just and opinion

[spaceman]

if the sun comes up on your left, south is in front of you

[Kim Lajoie]

Simple: I know a piece is "going south" when I don't enjoy listening to it.

If I don't enjoy listening to the piece, it's usually because something FUNDAMENTAL is wrong, and it's too late to fix - trying to fix it usually results in making matters worse .... and plenty of wasted time.

Easy fix: Start again from scratch. Keep the same intention, but take a COMPLETELY different approach.

Forever,




Kim.

[Kim Lajoie]

Additional:

With regards to the "problem" of losing good material in a crap piece of music... I used to worry about this in my early days because good material was tough to come by, literally few and far between. Nowadays every piece of music I create has good material, because I've learned to recognise what makes material good, and learned how to create cool stuff whenever I want.

In short, I don't care about throwing away good ideas, because I know another (better!) idea is just around the corner.

Forever,




Kim.

[wrench45us]

i think that comment is very close to the heart of this matter.

my more recent material, I've been able to add touches and move progressions around with a bit more facility than previously.

the problem seems to be trying to get the same result while I'm boxed into a fixed progression and limted melody line and not wanting to lose what's already there.

thanks.

[Spe3D]

With me – five minutes spent mixing an otherwise great sounding track – is a pretty good indicator.

Once I felt it necessary to mix and over compensate – this was the killer until I learnt to really trust my ears - and just because there are tons of effects and eq’s to be had – there is no need to push these things to the limits. It’s all about moderation – and get the best damn things you can afford.

Best regards,

Spe3d

:O)

[donkey tugger]

the problem seems to be trying to get the same result while I'm boxed into a fixed progression and limted melody line and not wanting to lose what's already there.

thanks.

If it's good enough to hold the song on its own then that might be all you need in the way of melody/chord progression. You could try to base verse/chorus changes around alterations in the rhythm instead, or perhaps by having some of the verse bits played an octave lower, or even hacking most of the instrumentation out so the verse is more minimal.

A lot of the time, I write too much for what the song needs, then end up throwing a lot of it away after coming back to it later.

[CypherOne]

then end up thgrowing a lot of it away after cfoming back to it latert.

been down the boozer again then Donks?

[donkey tugger]

then end up thgrowing a lot of it away after cfoming back to it latert.

been down the boozer again then Donks?

No, down the market. The unintelligible gruntings of the market traders must have had an adverse effect on me.

[kilroy]

If I am stuck in a composition I have to step away from it, get right out of my writing room, and away from the tools.

I have a strong passion for sword fencing and martial art diciplines. When am musically mired down I go down to the practice floor and run through some long sword drills, or Kendo katas with bokken or katanna. In essence what I do is try to work through my compositional block by redirecting pent up creativity and giving it expression in another dynamic medium. The cuts, thrusts, and blocks in sword play have strong musical parallels, timing, rhythm, dynamics, as do the meter and flow of Kobudo bo staff katas.

For me it is way of temporarily standing off from familiar writing tools and environments, whilst still excercising the key foundational elements on which music flourishes. The transfer and interpretation of ones compositional problems to a disiplined physical state is a superb way to stimulate fresh and enlightening approaches to music.

Well, it works for me anyroad.

[Sepheritoh]

I would say only about 2 out of 3 songs I start end in the shredder. If I start a song and come back to it the next day and it does not ring with me anymore I loose it. I do not have the patience to take it further. If I have spend more than a week with it I will feel compelled to finish it.

[SuitcaseOfLizards]

To a certain extent, at least for me, learning how to recognize when a "good song turns bad" is a matter of experience. My very early stuff, I'd keep working and working and working at, thinking "All I need is [type effect or instrument name here] and it'll be top stuff".. only to abandon the thing after days (and sometimes weeks!) of effort. Now, within an hour or so I can determine if I'm going down the wrong track by feeling the "flow".. that is, if the main themes of the tune (lyrics, drums, bed synth tracks) come together within hours I know I'm doing "the right thing" (whatever THAT means lol). If I feel the song start to "push back", things aren't meshing and/or musical ideas dry up.. I close the project and go off to do other things for a while (jam out alone, read poetry, paint or draw). If after 3 days I can't get the basics, I archive it for posterity and abandon it AS AN ENTITY. Sometimes I'll keep the lyrics, or put a cool riff or idea in a "inspirational concepts" folder, but that's it - that tune, as that specific idea, is dead.

Just my experience!

[fizbin]

Well, first the trick is to actually realize that it's failing at some level. It sounds like you have that ability. Most people do not and continue to stink on into oblivion.

If you can tell that one of your own songs is failing at some level you should also be able to tell why it is failing, requiring only a little more analysis and objective thinking. If you can fix it, then fix it. If you can't then move onto the next song.

If this seems too simplistic then basically you're telling us that you can tell that the song is weak in some way, but you're not sure exactly what is causing it. In that case there's absolutely no way for anyone here to guess how it's failing, not being able to hear the song.

Anyway the short answer to your question ("then what?") is very simple - start over, trash it completely, or fix what is wrong.

Good luck,
fizbin