KVR Audio

Lixx · Post by **Lixx** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:10 pm

I've had this problem for awhile now and was hoping someone here shared it. Basically, if i want to set knobs on my midi controller to a VSTi's sliders in Sonar3, i can easily do so using the midi learn command. However, for most vst fx, non cakewalk based of course, i can't seem to "midi learn" at all. Specifically, any of the smartelectronix effects wont let me bind faders to them, even though they have a midi learn feature built right into them!! Wtf?? I've tried plugin hosts like xlutop, but still have the exact same problem, even though xlutop is technically a vsti! It somehow knows that when i place the vst plugin fx into it, that it shouldn't let me MIDI learn!

torhan · Post by **torhan** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:14 pm

If it's happening w/SmartElectronix stuff, they have a forum here, I would possibly post this message there.

Re: Sonar, have you tried creating an automation envelope (either by drawing or by using the mod wheel, for example), then by reassigning that envelope to another CC?

KLG · Post by **KLG** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:48 pm

Try registering the VST as an DXi. You can set this option in the VST Wrapper. AFAIK, a wrapped VST won't receive any midi data, but if you register it as an instrument you can control it with midi.

Lixx · Post by **Lixx** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:36 am

Sorry guys, i tried everything that you both suggested with no luck. Also, i know the problem is not with smartelectronix ..because i have this problem with all my plugins it would seem. Here's even what's weirder...if i put the Xlutop chainer VST, in as an instrument, i can then bind MIDI to any knobs i want through chainer...however, if i insert chainer as a fx plug in and load the exact same effect, i get nothing.........So obviously Sonar3 has some major issues with binding MIDI to fx plugins??? Can this be????

LoRez · Post by **LoRez** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:52 am

Quex wrote:Sorry guys, i tried everything that you both suggested with no luck. Also, i know the problem is not with smartelectronix ..because i have this problem with all my plugins it would seem. Here's even what's weirder...if i put the Xlutop chainer VST, in as an instrument, i can then bind MIDI to any knobs i want through chainer...however, if i insert chainer as a fx plug in and load the exact same effect, i get nothing.........So obviously Sonar3 has some major issues with binding MIDI to fx plugins??? Can this be????

Considering you've had this problem for awhile, you really should consider contacting Cakewalk's tech support as I'm sure they can help you out.

ew · Post by ew » Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:58 am

Quex wrote:Sorry guys, i tried everything that you both suggested with no luck. Also, i know the problem is not with smartelectronix ..because i have this problem with all my plugins it would seem. Here's even what's weirder...if i put the Xlutop chainer VST, in as an instrument, i can then bind MIDI to any knobs i want through chainer...however, if i insert chainer as a fx plug in and load the exact same effect, i get nothing.........So obviously Sonar3 has some major issues with binding MIDI to fx plugins??? Can this be????

Same problem...as was stated;to send MIDI to a VST effect plugin,it MUST be registered as a DX synth.That's why Chainer as an instrument will receive ccs and Chainer as an effect won't.There's two versions of Chainer-the instrument is a VSTi(which will be registered as a DXi synth),and the effect version is a VST(which WON'T unless you do it yourself).Also,remember to create a MIDI track for what you're trying to control-otherwise you won't get anywhere.
ew

Lixx · Post by **Lixx** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:11 pm

I didnt quite understand this: "and the effect version is a VST(which WON'T unless you do it yourself).Also,remember to create a MIDI track for what you're trying to control-otherwise you won't get anywhere.
ew" Is this a possible solution? If so, i dont know what u mean by "create a midi track to control" What would a midi track have to do with my trying to bind the faders on an fx that is in turn used on an audio track.......i mean i can use them(fx plugs) on vsti's ....which are midi controlled.......but that presents the original problem.

torhan · Post by **torhan** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:16 pm

Did you try re-running the VST adapter, and using the Install as DXi option?

I think ew was saying that you'd have to do this manually in order for the vsti to use the cc data.

ew · Post by ew » Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:53 pm

Torhan's right about the first part-you'd have to run the adapter again and configure any VST effect(or Chainer VST if you want to run them inside the effect version of Chainer.Note I said Chainer VST-NOT Chainer VSTi.They're separate)as a DX synth for them to receive CCs.
As to the second part-you have to get MIDI to the plug,right(after all,cc information is MIDI)?How are you going to do that without a MIDI track for the plug?
I've been using Sonar since the 1.0 days-trust me on this.
ew

torhan · Post by **torhan** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:01 pm

ew wrote:Torhan's right about the first part-you'd have to run the adapter again and configure any VST effect(or Chainer VST if you want to run them inside the effect version of Chainer.Note I said Chainer VST-NOT Chainer VSTi.They're separate)as a DX synth for them to receive CCs.
As to the second part-you have to get MIDI to the plug,right(after all,cc information is MIDI)?How are you going to do that without a MIDI track for the plug?
I've been using Sonar since the 1.0 days-trust me on this.
ew

If he does the Insert > DXi method, it would create the necessary midi/audio tracks. Do you Quex?

ew · Post by ew » Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:03 pm

Yeah it would.He was asking WHY he needed the MIDI track-hence the explanation...
ew

torhan · Post by **torhan** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:09 pm

ew wrote:Yeah it would.He was asking WHY he needed the MIDI track-hence the explanation...
ew

Thanks for the immaculate interpretation.

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:37 pm

I probably misunderstood the question but what if you

check in the plug what cc the knob is assigned to, then change the cc of the slider or knob on your controller to that cc or set up an automation controller in the piano roll of the midi track with the same cc

of course, if you don't know what cc the plug knob (that sounds silly) uses, this won't make sense

Mr. Slater's Parrot · Post by **Mr. Slater's Parrot** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:56 pm

As ew has been pointing out, you need to select the option in the adapter that marks the effect as a DXI not as a DX. There is an option in the Cakewalk adapter for this and there is an option in DirectiXer for this. Both adapters can do it.

Once Sonar sees your effect marked as a DXI, it will send midi data to it. If your wrapped effect is not marked as a DXI, it will not receive any midi data, so, clearly, you won't be able to do "midi learn" on controls in the effect. Once you *do* mark the effect as a DXI, everything will work just as you expect.

And as ew pointed out also, you should do this for the Chainer VST effect which, as he mentioned, is different from the Chainer VST Instrument.

On my system, I wrap both the Chainer Instrument plugin and the Chainer Effect plugin. I use the DXI (instrument) option for each of them. For effects, I can make an instance of Chainer Effect (marked as a DXI) and use its built-in "midi learn" even on effects that don't, themselves, provide the "midi learn" feature.

Bottom line, I use "midi learn" on VST effects in Sonar all the time and it works like a charm. Once you set the DXi option, everything should work just great.

Lixx · Post by **Lixx** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:10 am

First of all, i'd like to thank everyone for their help, but my problem still isn't solved. So unless i'm retarded, there is somethign wrong with my Sonar

Below are detailed steps of what i'm doing so maybe someone can spot the error(s).

1. Run cakewalk adapter
2. scan for vsts
3. go to chainer, or any effect, highlight, and click on "properties"
4. make sure that both "enable DX plug in" and "configure as DXI synth" are checked.
5. click next -> finish
6. open sonar.
7. go to any audio track and right click on the FX box.
8. "insert dxi synth", since now my effects aren't under the "audio effects" tab.
9. Attempt to bind a fader to my controller.....nothing happens.
10. try inserting chainer as an "dxi synth" into FX box.....load plugin, learn midi.......NOTHING....

WTF???? The problem cant be my controller as any knob in sonar can successfully see it. just not fuckin fx!

Why won't Sonar3's fx recognize my MIDI cc??