KVR Audio

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:16 pm

You're all very unfair with George. DiscoDSP is mainly one man, and with very weak means, and for all the questions related to the sales and the relations which are not concerning technical aspects, he uses the services of a third party. And it's not difficult to guess that it is not free, third party services are necessarily thing one must must pay for that. And we can guess that it is not cheap, especially when it is impossible to do without when having too few personal means to be able to do it oneself.

IK, Izotope, etc. all these other brands (yes, it is real brands, not small developers) you've cited are not the same kind of developers at all, they are quite big companies. With a lot of money, with all internal services, with operators, delegated persons for the relations, complexly structured websites, many developers organized in teams... and many products in their catalogs.

George, him, he lives with mainly four or five products, that's all. He develops these products himself and with two or three other persons, that's all.

Therefore I find perfectly normal when George can't have an IT system able to send email to each customer for questions related to one's account. Each one is adult enough to manage one's own plugins and the history of his releases. And I find perfectly normal to be kind enough to add 19 euros once in the lifetime of a product. The Discovery pro of today is not the Discovery Pro that many among you paid when it was released the first time ten yours ago! To pay 19 euros exceptionally for an update in the life of a product (which by the way has born in 2007 and keeps on evolving) is not the sea to drink. And I find you all very severe for a guy who makes these plugins by passion much more than to eat caviar!

Honestly, when you talk about developers who are one man companies or not much more than one man you should be way less severe with them when they provide web services quite limited and when they ask you for a such small addition (what is 19 euros, honestly ?!) exceptionally for an update! I find that a bit strange for so many people among you who can afford dozens and dozens of expensive plugins to make your music! Myself I live with nothing else than a little disability allowance so I choose carefully a small amount of plugins, but in addition I have the decency and the courtesy to be extremely grateful for small developers who can't provide top notch internet services but need to eat as us all !

You should be ashamed you all with your complaints for so ridicules reasons.

For me that succession of complaints resemble much more to a kind of indecency than any other thing, and I prefer to keep on supporting developers like him, manage myself the history of my versions of plugins... and add kindly sometimes a so ridicule addition to the cost of the plugin after so many years of existence!

Period.

jsp1979 · Post by **jsp1979** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:29 pm

So, your view is that, yes, he probably did this to force people to pay and we should be grateful.

Good luck with that reasoning.

The issue is not that people don't want to support a company. The issue is having a complete change in policy with no warning that appears to have been put in place to force people to buy an upgrade.

Again, why does the user area page say to login to "download the latest installers"? Doesn't that imply that your installers will be there?

http://www.discodsp.com/members/

EDIT: I'm also having a hard time thinking of any synth company that doesn't give you access to the latest full installers after purchase. u-he, Linplug, Papen, NI, AAS, Sugar Bytes, etc. I understand limiting sample library downloads, but not synths/effects (particularly when new versions are released regularly).

Ghostwave · Post by **Ghostwave** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:38 pm

BlackWinny wrote:YAnd I find perfectly normal to be kind enough to add 19 euros once in the lifetime of a product. To pay 19 euros exceptionally for an update in the life of a product (which by the way has born in 2007 and keeps on evolving) is not the sea to drink.

Allow me to correct you: Every major update we had to pay for. So no, it's not 19 euros in 9 years.
The problem is not that we don't want to support George and his great plugins, it's the fact that we are forced to.
I don't mind paying money for good work. But here, we are forced to pay for something we 1) don't know about right now (seemingly, we'll know tomorrow) 2) may not need/want.
Having the latest paid-for version available for download is what we're all asking for, nothing more.
If the upgrade is worth it, I'll happily pay for it. But I'll choose to.

Robmobius · Post by **Robmobius** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:41 pm

BlackWinny wrote:
You should be ashamed you all with your complaints for so ridicules reasons.

That's Bollox... I'm a one man company too. My clients get what they pay for and more. If they loose a file or delete something by accident. They will have a replacement asap, no questions asked.

It's just good business sense to keep your clients happy.

Robmobius · Post by **Robmobius** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:42 pm

Carbonflake wrote: Having the latest paid-for version available for download is what we're all asking for, nothing more.
If the upgrade is worth it, I'll happily pay for it. But I'll choose to.

This!!

ZeePok · Post by **ZeePok** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:11 pm

BlackWinny wrote:YAnd I find perfectly normal to be kind enough to add 19 euros once in the lifetime of a product. To pay 19 euros exceptionally for an update in the life of a product (which by the way has born in 2007 and keeps on evolving) is not the sea to drink.

Not when one just purchased the thing!

Then it does seem a but unfair to charge yet for another update (and remove my current version DL in the process!)

e-modic · Post by **e-modic** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:28 pm

Carbonflake wrote:
BlackWinny wrote:YAnd I find perfectly normal to be kind enough to add 19 euros once in the lifetime of a product. To pay 19 euros exceptionally for an update in the life of a product (which by the way has born in 2007 and keeps on evolving) is not the sea to drink.
Allow me to correct you: Every major update we had to pay for. So no, it's not 19 euros in 9 years.
The problem is not that we don't want to support George and his great plugins, it's the fact that we are forced to.

You are not forced to! You bought a synth so keep it. Do you go to a store and say I need my MicroBrute because I have lost it? It is all about backups. I am using 6.2 and maybe I am using it till the end of the time I can do music

and it is one click to add this synth to my backup folder and when I check out his latest stuff I check his demo versions. Sapere aude.

murnau · Post by **murnau** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:32 pm

Some need to read the thread again to get an idea what is really the reason that most people grumble..

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:34 pm

BlackWinny wrote:You're all very unfair with George. DiscoDSP is mainly one man, and with very weak means, and for all the questions related to the sales and the relations which are not concerning technical aspects, he uses the services of a third party. And it's not difficult to guess that it is not free, third party services are necessarily thing one must must pay for that. And we can guess that it is not cheap, especially when it is impossible to do without when having too few personal means to be able to do it oneself.

IK, Izotope, etc. all these other brands (yes, it is real brands, not small developers) you've cited are not the same kind of developers at all, they are quite big companies. With a lot of money, with all internal services, with operators, delegated persons for the relations, complexly structured websites, many developers organized in teams... and many products in their catalogs.

George, him, he lives with mainly four or five products, that's all. He develops these products himself and with two or three other persons, that's all.

So, if he struggles with so many difficulties, why did he spread his efforts to the iOS world? He should concentrate in what he already have, instead of trying something which will dobutfully payoff. Besides, nothing of what you said justifies to rewove the old versions. Quite the opposite - removing old versions is an extra task that's unnecessary and unjustified.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:41 pm

e-modic wrote:
Carbonflake wrote:
BlackWinny wrote:YAnd I find perfectly normal to be kind enough to add 19 euros once in the lifetime of a product. To pay 19 euros exceptionally for an update in the life of a product (which by the way has born in 2007 and keeps on evolving) is not the sea to drink.
Allow me to correct you: Every major update we had to pay for. So no, it's not 19 euros in 9 years.
The problem is not that we don't want to support George and his great plugins, it's the fact that we are forced to.
You are not forced to! You bought a synth so keep it. Do you go to a store and say I need my MicroBrute because I have lost it? It is all about backups. I am using 6.2 and maybe I am using it till the end of the time I can do music and it is one click to add this synth to my backup folder and when I check out his latest stuff I check his demo versions. Sapere aude.

Not a valid comparison though... it's rather as if you bought a Minibrute, and the option to get a new revision whenever one is released, but you can't get the new revision now anymore, because there has been a paid update, and the revisions before that are out of stock. So, basically, you don't get what has been promised. Even worse, if you bought the Minibrute yesterday, but didn't have the time to pick it up yet, the stores says "Sorry, but we released a new paid update for it today, your Minibrute is not available anymore unless you pay $XX to get the updated version".

e-modic · Post by **e-modic** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:42 pm

fmr wrote:
BlackWinny wrote:Besides, nothing of what you said justifies to rewove the old versions. Quite the opposite - removing old versions is an extra task that's unnecessary and unjustified.

It is not, just do a backup then all is good. This makes you enjoy his new products.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:46 pm

BlackWinny wrote: The Discovery pro of today is not the Discovery Pro that many among you paid when it was released the first time ten yours ago! To pay 19 euros exceptionally for an update in the life of a product (which by the way has born in 2007 and keeps on evolving) is not the sea to drink. And I find you all very severe for a guy who makes these plugins by passion much more than to eat caviar!

I don't know for how long you have Discovery, but I already paid several times for it. I paid for Discovery, I paid when it went from Discovery to Discovery Pro, and I paid for upgrades (ate least I remember paying when it went from v5 to v6, and also once during the life of v6, if I am correct). It wasn't once in a lifetime, it was several times in a lifetime. Which is normal and OK, since new features were added, and I found it justified.

But I think something went wrong with discoDSP lately. First it was Vertigo that went through a revision (which was smaller than i think it needed), and we were asked for payment. Since I have other (much better) additive synths, I gave up of it. Then it was HighLife which went from free to paid, and later replaced with Bliss. I could have bought Bliss, but NEVER with that ugly GUI. I told him so, as well as others. He decided to went with it. Probably, he sold fewer than he thought (he should made it skinnable, and created an alternative skin that would please more those like me that like to watch something beautiful, and not ugly).

Now, he made some cosmetic changes to Discovery pro, and decided to charge for it. It's OK with me, I can very well keep what I already have, and simply carry on, ignoring the so called "upgrade". But trying to force that on us by removing the older (perfectly usable) version is something outrageously and ostensibly cynical on his attempt to force users to "upgrade". There is no other way to qualify it.

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:48 pm

Luckily, I always backup my installers. But I agree with everyone that removing the downloads was quite a weird and not very customer-friendly move.

Definitely not gonna pay for the upgrade if it concerns only the GUI stuff.

e-modic · Post by **e-modic** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:56 pm

fmr wrote:
Now, he made some cosmetic changes to Discovery pro, and decided to charge for it. It's OK with me, I can very well keep what I already have, and simply carry on, ignoring the so called "upgrade". But trying to force that on us by removing the older (perfectly usable) version is something outrageously and ostensibly cynical on his attempt to force users to "upgrade". There is other way to qualify it.

Cosmetically changes as you say mean days/month of developing. What´s your rate for an hour of work, 30,--? Again dude, you are not forced to upgrade. He just removed older versions while there is a KVR news log for all changes. I didn´t read all myself but I have a backup and stay on 6.2 at the moment without having dark clouds on me because of DiscoDSP. What´s your point? You have none. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO UPGRADE.

Robmobius · Post by **Robmobius** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:58 pm

I'm always happy to pay for an upgrade as long as it's significant. Discovery's latest updates have been minor (and free). As I said previously, we will just have to see what George will reveal about the upgrade. 19e might be good value for what you get. Lets hop so.

However now after all these shenanigans - I don't really want to give him any money until I have access to my old installers. Sure, it's only 19e, but it's now just out of principal.

As fmr said about Vertigo. I got the email about it an upgrade. But I didn't bite, because I've other synths that I like more. But I did go for Bliss.

Discovery Pro synthesizer 6.4 to 8.0