better song structure/progression

[arkmabat]

Hello, you can see my work
at soundcloud.com/arkmabat

I'm struggling with being less repetitious and having the songs flow better. I realize this is a very open ended question, but any help is appreciated. Is there a better workflow in FLS that encourages changing up the notes more?

[deastman]

I recommend just improvising on your keyboard for a while. Come up with the chord progressions for the various parts of your song. Record that in and block out the different sections using one simple melodic sound. Now use that as a roadmap as you begin to replace sections with different sounds and individual melodic and supporting instruments. Build up the arrangement.

[arkmabat]

Great advice thanks

[Musikarchitekt]

When you have a melody in the pattern, you can clone this pattern. In the double pattern you can modify the melody. For example you could split a crotchet into two eighth notes. One of these you could octave. Or you insert short notes that don't fit to the chord.

This method I discovered for me a few days ago and it's really helpful.

Greets

[deastman]

When you have a melody in the pattern, you can clone this pattern. In the double pattern you can modify the melody. For example you could split a crotchet into two eighth notes. One of these you could octave. Or you insert short notes that don't fit to the chord.

This method I discovered for me a few days ago and it's really helpful.

Greets

That is a valid approach. But I find it much easier just to start jamming along on a keyboard and come up with a melody that way. Improvise for a few minutes and you'll narrow it down to one strong melody.

[ras.s]

Once you have your arrangement done, start over and record each note of every part on every instrument. Perform longer segments with what you've already done serving as the backing track. Even if it's four-on-the-floor kicks, if you play each of them in, you'll get varying velocities, giving a type of organic flow. You'll get groove, variation, push and pull, a living performance -- essentially, flow.

Even if you don't want the kick drum varying dynamics, would the hihats benefit from it? The snare? What about the lead melody's first note being a bit louder the second time it starts? You'll know it because you've played it in.

Doing it like this also gives you a good opportunity to add fills and ornaments, because you're thinking it over again. "It was first like this, now I'll do it like this" -- the flow will come naturally. Even when you want the chorus section to be exactly the same the second time, instead of looping it from the first time it comes, by playing it in you'll get a slightly different feel to it.

Emulate a real performer, to put it short. Be a real performer.

[MOK19]

I was reading a Q&A from an interesting musician the other day, and he said something novel - he believes that many artists big mistake is that they sit down in front of their DAW and then start writing a song. He proposes that many people will get better results if they do some amount of song planning before even touching the DAW. And to his credit, he's one of the more original artists I've heard lately, with practically an allergy to the sort of repetition we find in dance music.

Something I've been working on lately is choosing a chord progression first for three different sections. Like a verse/chorus/bridge style of sectioning, where each has a different set of primary chords, and I choose them before doing much of anything. It's really simplistic, they're not planned out cadences, they're just the roman numerals basically. Personally, I'm not good at this, and don't really know what chords are going to sound good to me, but I think I'm learning...

Would be nice if i was better with a piano.

[zethus909]

encourages changing up the notes more?

idk about FL but you can use an arp and there should be a random setting...that will change the notes up good for you

[hezekiah74]

I suggest you try using chords outside the scale but have a common relationship like R&B and Neo Soul. You can be adventurous that way.

[SpankyPoppagasket]

I listened to a few of your tracks and thought they were pretty damn good! Not sure how much you know so hopefully this doesn't sound like gibberish...

Learn about sonata form and modulation! It really opened up the world for me. Basically you start out in one key/mode like C dorian and do that for a few measures, modulate into a new key/mode (maybe something in G) by hanging on a single note that both scales share for a half measure or something (there's different tricks) and do the new key for a few measures or longer - whatever you think sounds good really.

Eventually you end up having a song that looks like X Y Z with each letter being different keys/modes. Then you can return to X (which is C dorian) and even vary it slightly so you have XYZX, etc. There's names for the different sections like recapitulation, etc., but ultimately it's just a a loose guide to structure. You might end up with a song that looks like XYZXXWYZTX or whatever you want. It's like putting several songs in one song. The trick is making the sections relate to each other by genre or spirit of the song, but the older I get the more I enjoy making unrelated sounding sections which might even cross genres. Gives a more schizophrenic/amateurish/"don't give a shit" feel, but that's just my personal taste.

Chords are pretty much just single notes with some buddies (same scale/mode) with them if that makes any sense and you can make good songs without them. That's a simple explanation and not entirely accurate, but you can really get in the weeds with the technical aspects and often you only have a couple of choices by the end of the progression. Certain notes in the scale, once played in the chord, will sound like an end to the phrase and will make you want to go back to the beginning key or start a new key... Get a feel for which notes do what or read up on it.

And you really don't even need a progression - just a key/mode. For example, record a little melody in G with a bass instrument for a few measures and play that while playing G with a lead over the top of it (in the same key/mode). You're jamming with yourself. Now go back and add a couple more notes in the same scale to the original bass notes on each beat of the measure and there you've got chords if you want. Making a progression largely binds you to that progression and if you're looking to be less repetitious you probably don't want to bind yourself. Getting wrapped up in Chords can be distracting too if you are learning modulation. Just know you're working in one key for some measures and then switch to a another scale. Later you can go back and refine your chord knowledge and make tight progressions.

Just sharing what I know as best I can. Hopefully I didn't butcher it too bad. So basically, learn about modulating into different keys (hanging on a note both key/modes share before going from one to the other is easiest) and sonata-form which will help you be less repetitious. Don't get turned off by technical terms or rules too - these days the best music often bends the rules. You'll be able to make 15 minute songs that don't just go on and on and there'll be several emotions wrapped up in the different keys/modes of the song.

[Mister Natural]

...Would be nice if i was better with a piano.

I don't know anyone who doesn't say this !

[Otherworldly]

Hello, you can see my work
at soundcloud.com/arkmabat

I'm struggling with being less repetitious and having the songs flow better. I realize this is a very open ended question, but any help is appreciated. Is there a better workflow in FLS that encourages changing up the notes more?

Hello,

Nice work, I believe you're definitely on the right path

Deastman gave great suggestions.

Regarding arrangements: Whatever works best for the song. To begin, I use the lead vocal (and lyrics) as a guide-track and then work from that, finding various ways to seriously compliment the main melody. Like the whole song from start to end (musically) tells a story. Another example, it's amazing how a subtle addition (one note) can make such a huge impact.

Yes, just improvise, experiment until you hit those magic moments....

I recommend just improvising on your keyboard for a while. Come up with the chord progressions for the various parts of your song. Record that in and block out the different sections using one simple melodic sound. Now use that as a roadmap as you begin to replace sections with different sounds and individual melodic and supporting instruments. Build up the arrangement.

Agree

[HolisticSongwriting]

Here's a blog post I wrote on making your choruses stand out:
http://blog.holistic-songwriting.com/20 ... hard-tech/

And for more, you can check out my book "The Addiction Formula", which includes over 317 techniques and 331 examples from hit songs from 1990-2016. You can find it on Amazon.

The book is really all about how to keep your songs interesting and how to move the musical material along in such a way that your audience wants to keep listening.

Hope this helps