Korg Minilogue

[ghettosynth]

Or in other words... (which I've kind of suspected along), Mr. Jupiter is really a moron, lol.

Because someone identified a problem that you haven't seen, he's a moron? Yeah, I don't think so. What I've seen in all of these discussions is a distinct lack of awareness of the process of problem solving and deduction. I've seen a lot of hand waving denial because people don't want to believe that there is a problem.

Actually... I'm kind of glad to have another opinion on this and hear that it really isn't an issue. It definitely is not an issue on my unit. In fact, according to Marc, it's actually a nice feature rather than a problem.

If you want to call a defect a feature, that's your choice. It certainly wouldn't be the first time that people appreciate defective behavior in an instrument. But, with respect to "should it work that way", it is, in fact, a defect.

Something that I learned long ago when repairing audio gear was that once you observe an intermittent problem yourself then you cannot simply dismiss it until you can account for why it's there in the first place. Yes, customers often confuse normal behavior with a defect, but you take their claims seriously and try to recreate the problem. If you can't, you send it back to them and ask them to help you determine the conditions under which the problem occurs, but, if you see the problem yourself under somewhat controlled conditions, even just once, you cannot tell the customer that the problem doesn't exist. You can still send it back to them if you can't identify it, but denial is dishonest at that point. There IS a problem.

Just because the problem manifests in different ways for different people, doesn't mean that any one of them are wrong, per se. This is especially true if it is related to a defect in design that is a function of manufacturing tolerances. It might be much worse for some people than of others. If this is true, then it's a particularly bad defect because it can't be reliably bound in terms of expectations and it might get worse over time. For a really good example of this look no further than the Juno 106 voice problem.

The problem with that video, and I didn't watch the whole thing, so apologies if he gets to this later, is that he's not addressing the issue of the click on slow attack/release times where, if it's a problem, is a very big problem because it can't be masked by the desired sound.

In any case, what that video confirms is that there IS a problem with manufacture of these units. You may like the click, but it shouldn't work that way. It will take more time and, frankly, people with greater technical skill than I've seen demonstrated so far, to get to the bottom of the problem.

[deastman]

I've definitely heard the click problem on my unit, and yes, it IS a problem. But the synth overall is really pretty awesome, especially at that price. I can live with the click issue. Hopefully Korg isn't deaf to all the complaints, and they find a solution for us.

[ghettosynth]

I've definitely heard the click problem on my unit, and yes, it IS a problem. But the synth overall is really pretty awesome, especially at that price. I can live with the click issue. Hopefully Korg isn't deaf to all the complaints, and they find a solution for us.

No doubt, it's a fantastic synth, but, it was pretty clear from the get go that there was some issues with it with respect to the clicking and there has been a lot of wasted virtual ink from the peanut gallery trying to deny that the problem exists.

Basically, if your machine doesn't have problem, either because you haven't noticed it or because you can't hear it, then you don't really have much to contribute to the question. Certainly, any single non-observance of the problem is not evidence that their isn't a problem. Until the problem can be characterized, there's not really any way that those who haven't observed it can claim that that the problem doesn't exist, or even that they don't have the problem. You just may not have it yet!

Again, I turn your attention to the Juno 106 problem. It's not hard to find people who vigorously claimed back in the day that their machine didn't have that problem. I bet it does now! It's now well understood that if your machine doesn't have the problem then it's only a a matter of time before it will. Same thing with the battery in the Korg Poly6.

[Uncle E]

I think Korg must already be working on a firmware to address the clicking. Even if it's a problem/feature inherent to the hardware, users have already found some workarounds and Korg simply needs to make these workarounds easily accessible to the masses (e.g. new voice modes).

[olikana]

in analog when you want the envelope to restart on each note ("multitrig") it restarts from the last level the attack stage reached, and not an abrupt restart from 0 which will act like a chopping mode causing clicks.
i think the envelope in minilogue is digital and the coder made that fundamental common mistake.
the mistake for sure is there (as the other video i posted proved), whether is is the only reason for the click remains to be seen. surely it doesn't hep, especially with open release sounds.

[D-Fusion]

Here is korgs take on the Click issue : https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/c ... _clicking/

The click issue doesn't bother me since i am mainly using it for some bass and lead sounds so i rarely experience it.

[EvilDragon]

in analog when you want the envelope to restart on each note ("multitrig") it restarts from the last level the attack stage reached, and not an abrupt restart from 0 which will act like a chopping mode causing clicks.
i think the envelope in minilogue is digital and the coder made that fundamental common mistake.
the mistake for sure is there (as the other video i posted proved), whether is is the only reason for the click remains to be seen. surely it doesn't hep, especially with open release sounds.

Yep, I'd say that's the case here. I wouldn't say it's a mistake, it's just another way of doing envelopes. If they do a firmware update that adds an option for continuing envelopes rather than restarted from 0 envelopes, it should fix it all.

[IncarnateX]

Here is korgs take on the Click issue : https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/c ... _clicking/

Here is the first reponse to the complainer's post, which is much more funny than Korg's take on it.

You asked a support question, got a response that your unit was working as intended. You then accused them of fraud and complained about the possibility of having to pay shipping to return your functioning-as-intended product, while trying to coax them into sending you a Minilogue from their secret non-clicking stash. When they advised you that they did not have a secret non-clicking stash of Minilogues and that if you don't like the sound, you would have to return your unit as you said you would, you got upset and sent what was basically a troll message to bait them into continuing to waste time on you.
What exactly did you expect would happen?

Drama continues. I still look forward to my broken, clicky, faulty minilogue....in april

[D-Fusion]

He-he.
Yes he was a little angry that customer.
But it would be nice to get a straight answer from them too on if we get additional vca/vcf options

I finally got mine 7 Days ago
Ough So you have to wait until April.
Why the long wait?

[stillshaded]

Jesus.. These clicking ppl need to get over it.


They're going to fix it. It has digital envelopes and there's a crap ton of microprocessors in it. Im sure they took into consideration that you can't release anything nowadays without a bunch of entitled wieners crying about it 24/7 and made the minilogue with a very updatable OS.

Plz chill

[IncarnateX]

Why the long wait?

Ordered too late it seems. Thomann in Germany told me that it was likely that I don't get my unit in the first batch in march and that they will get their second one in april. Hope they do not solve the clicking issue before I get it, since I'd love to have those clicks in my head 24 hours a day and add up to those already there.

[olikana]

in analog when you want the envelope to restart on each note ("multitrig") it restarts from the last level the attack stage reached, and not an abrupt restart from 0 which will act like a chopping mode causing clicks.
i think the envelope in minilogue is digital and the coder made that fundamental common mistake.
the mistake for sure is there (as the other video i posted proved), whether is is the only reason for the click remains to be seen. surely it doesn't hep, especially with open release sounds.

Yep, I'd say that's the case here. I wouldn't say it's a mistake, it's just another way of doing envelopes. If they do a firmware update that adds an option for continuing envelopes rather than restarted from 0 envelopes, it should fix it all.

"multitrig" restarts the envelope on each key press, but they implemented it wrong. it shouldn't restart abruptly from 0 but from the last stage the Attack stage reached. they made a fundamental mistake. the kind of mistake a newbie software developer makes. and that's why it clicks also when playing sounds with slow attacks when you press a 2nd note.
a "single trig" mode would make the envelope continue (from the Release stage) but that would be a different mode, their current multitrig implementation would remain incorrect and choppy unlesss they make it restart from the point the attack reached and not just an hard reset from 0 (no analog synth does that).
explained well here
http://www.matrixsynth.com/2016/02/anal ... logue.html

[ghettosynth]

Jesus.. These clicking ppl need to get over it.


They're going to fix it. It has digital envelopes and there's a crap ton of microprocessors in it. Im sure they took into consideration that you can't release anything nowadays without a bunch of entitled wieners crying about it 24/7 and made the minilogue with a very updatable OS.

Plz chill

We're just talking about a technical issue, statements like yours are the problem. They don't contribute anything useful to the question, and make sweeping pejorative statements about other people that are unfounded.

It isn't entitled to expect a piece of gear to work correctly. That is normal. If you demanded special treatment, that might indicate a sense of entitlement, depending upon whether or not you are actually entitled to that special treatment.

A lot of gear has updatable OS but is not well supported by the manufacturer. Even back in the day when a customer would have to pay for the update manufacturers often did not fix important issues. To this day the Roland JX-10 has a sysex problem.

Talking about the problem and trying to identify what are the specific issues from a technical point of view is helpful for potential customers. It is beyond me why some people are so offended by these discussions.

[IncarnateX]

I may understand people complaining about the clicks if they actually bought/are interested in buying minilogue and expected none to be there at all, but what is it with all those fury and fighting "experts" who just insist on making it a general problem to everyone though they apparently isn't interested in getting the synth at all. What are their motives? Altruism? Or is this really about catching the chance to display themselves as technical experts and bullying those that don't take their authority for granted? Hmm...hmm...hmm?

In contrast, a fanboy's motives are always transparent, aren't they?

[ghettosynth]

I may understand people complaining about the clicks if they actually bought/are interested in buying minilogue and expected none to be there at all, but what is it with all those fury and fighting "experts" who just insist on making it a general problem to everyone though they apparently isn't interested in getting the synth at all. What are their motives? Altruism? Or is this really about catching the chance to display themselves as technical experts and bullying those that don't take their authority for granted? Hmm...hmm...hmm?

You're jumping to wild conclusions. I can't speak for others but I'm interested in all new analog synths even if I'm not in the market right away. There are very few synths that I buy immediately on release. In fact I can think of only four in my purchase history. The Nord Modular, the Future Retro 777, and Uhe's Diva and Bazille. In the case of the Nord and the FR I purchased them sight unseen. I understand that desire to have something that's really groundbreaking and interesting and being willing to overlook flaws. We all decide for ourselves how important those flaws are. BTW: Both the FR and the NM had limitations on first release and talking about them in public did have an effect on the future of the product.

In this case, I'm very interested in everything that there is to know about this new synth. It's interesting from many points of view. I want to know about the click problem in detail, I want to know about the design. I might eventually buy one, or, I might by a more serious future version of it.

Since I own many analogs, IMNSHO, 12 voices is the minimum number of voices for a pad synth and six is the minimum number for a basic poly. So no, I'm not immediately interested in this as a product, but I'm very interested in how Korg addresses these issues and where they take the design in the future.

I come here to talk about music technology with like minded people. Pretty much, if you find yourself talking about other people instead of talking about the technology, you're the source of the drama, and really, I'm not talking to you.