Cubase SX issues

[auxbuss]

Hmmm... am i wrong in saying that what you describe for the way Live handles it's routing, is a subset of the way SX2 does, in a way?

No, the other way around, since you can route anything to anything.

I was thinking about how one accesses them from the mixer itself, as opposed to key commands.

It's one of those unfortunate things that the mixer has become centre of operations in SX. This went away - and with most other products it's either absent or unnecessary - but unfortunately it's back; although I still don't use it unless mixing, and then it's only for a visual check.

I wonder if this has something to do with the new audio engine - multiple equal output busses as opposed to a single master buss?

This is Steinberg's infamous "philosophy". Unfortunately, they forgot to remove the master level and fader from the Transport They used the same "reasoning" for the mono toggle. They must smoke some whacky weed in Hamburg.

Re: VST comparisons
A large part of the problem. Nuendo/SX isn't and never was VST. Handing it over to the VST progs - who clearly had no idea what they had - saw them trying to turn it into VST with a better GUI. They are about halfway there, I reckon

[topaz]

Sascha

there are some workarounds like most software but in general SX2 works well.

one problem is Dave Nicholson suffers from what I call I.L.S (Image Line Syndrome) in the fact he thinks he knows everything already and what makes the user think they know what he doesnt already.

saying that he may listen to you being an ex Logic tester, then again depends on what mood he is in.

there should be an option to always open vsti audio settings for those who use 100% vst.

topaz

[Sascha Franck]

Uh-oh, what did I start here?
But anyways...

But you have channel strips in SX as well.

Not exactly. The channel strips for MIDI tracks don't offer any audio functionality. Which they should, IMO. At least optionally.
I use that all the time in Logic and it's just the easiest way to quickly adjust some audio settings (on a VSTi track) while working.

Don't get me wrong, I can somewhat see the logic behind the current behaviour, but as said, it should be there as an option to quickly bring you to your VSTis audio channel settings.

drag the automation track under the vsti midi track
(you only have to do this once) hit one button to pop open the channel strip.

This is a truly unsatisfying solution.
Why would I need another track to be present, just to press that "e" button?
Seriously, the arrange page of SX is allready stuffed more than enough - I don't want to add anything else to it that I wouldn't need.

Sascha,
It may be an idea to post a question or two over at the alt.steinberg.cubase newsgroup.

I've been on the Yahoo Cubase list since ages (actually I still am).
And I've been reading alt.steinberg.cubase years ago as well (when I was a Cubase user and when it was mirrored by majordomo).
So, I somewhat know where to find information... but for now I preferred K-v-R because you can very often get balanced opinions over here, rather than some enthusiasm.

This exists in Nuendo 1 - but then Steinberg removed it. However, you can get to it via the GRD, provided that you know the trick. In other words, it's there, but hidden.

What's that trick?

one problem is Dave Nicholson suffers from what I call I.L.S (Image Line Syndrome) in the fact he thinks he knows everything already and what makes the user think they know what he doesnt already.

Errr... I had some VERY heated discussions with Dave Nicholson, back in the days when VST was rather young (versions 3-3.6) and when each version jump had at LEAST 5-10 inbetween releases because it was bug central.

saying that he may listen to you being an ex Logic tester, then again depends on what mood he is in.

I actually thought they would indeed listen to some Ex-Logic users when the Apple deal happened - but so far I don't think much has happened in terms of areas where Logic was/is so much superior - basically it comes down to ergonomic things, technically SX might be better anyways, but for me some things in the handling department are just implemented... err... well... I really better don't say how I think they are implemented as it might start some flames, nothing that I'm on about.

there should be an option to always open vsti audio settings for those who use 100% vst.

There should be such a setting in any case. What about a dedicated icon (that you could have visible or not by some preference).

I have another question:
When selecting a track in my project/arrange, with a mixer opened allready (tiled windows), is there a way to have the mixer jump to the appropriate channel?
I find myself scrolling around in the mixer WAY too much and I didn't even attempt a halfway complexed project yet.
So, a mixer that would follow my arrange would just be great.

[kritikon]

I have another question:
When selecting a track in my project/arrange, with a mixer opened allready (tiled windows), is there a way to have the mixer jump to the appropriate channel?
I find myself scrolling around in the mixer WAY too much and I didn't even attempt a halfway complexed project yet.
So, a mixer that would follow my arrange would just be great.

Used to be in VST that you ctrl clicked on a mixer channel to leap to that channel window (or was it alt click?) Would imagine it's the same in SX.

That's the thing with Cubase - it's not always immediate admittedly, but it's always had multiple ways of dealing with how you work. I remember how I first thought VST was incredibly clunky, but eventually I got used to it and now I find it incredibly quick and flexible. It's just what you go through when you learn a new host I have several ways of working within VST depending on how I feel - that's the beauty - you can make it work how you want it to.

Seriously....it's worth going through the manual in depth - I know host manuals aren't exactly light bed-time reading , but every now and then I still read a section or two of the VST manual - and every time, I find something that makes workflow even easier still. There's no way on earth you'll get to know SX in a few weeks - that takes months or years - just like it would for me with Logic - last time I tried Logic, I couldn't make anything work!

I know I'll be in for a headbanging time when SX arrives, but I'll at least try to stop myself having a stroke by giving myself time to learn how to use the quick methods one by one. Really, it's not all Steinberg's fault - how can they make such a huge host straight-forward? It's impossible. And don't say that Logic is - it's not to anyone that hasn't spent years on it, I assure you.

Just calm down, have a large brandy, take a valium - it'll come to you sooner or later.

[Sascha Franck]

I have learned Logic in a week. After that everything I was planning to do was accomplished a LOT faster than under Cubase (which I used for years, 1.0 to 3.6).

[Sascha Franck]

One other thing i couldn't find in the manual so far:
In SX, is there something like "chase events" for MIDI notes?
When you play some part with held or sustained notes from the middle (say, some drone), SX per default wont play back the notes, you need to play all notes from the beginning to get them played.
In Logic there's a function called "chase events", just for that. Extremely useful when working on parts with long notes. They will just play regardless of your starting point.

Does that exist in SX?

[stefancrs]

Not exactly. The channel strips for MIDI tracks don't offer any audio functionality. Which they should, IMO. At least optionally.
I use that all the time in Logic and it's just the easiest way to quickly adjust some audio settings (on a VSTi track) while working.

Don't get me wrong, I can somewhat see the logic behind the current behaviour, but as said, it should be there as an option to quickly bring you to your VSTis audio channel settings.

What? All of the output channels from the vsti as strips under the midi track? If not, which channels as strips? When one starts *choosing* which audio channel that should be visible as a strip in the midi track it probably is easier as it is atm. When one is used to working with midi and audio seperately that is.

The chase events thingy is something that would be very useful though, dunno if it exists

[Robr]

Some people are comical.If you haven't heard about midi timing issues and are a cubase/nuendo user where have you been for the last 12 months.

[Sascha Franck]

Some people are comical.If you haven't heard about midi timing issues and are a cubase/nuendo user where have you been for the last 12 months.

Even if that wasn't adressed at me, the answer is easy:
In Logic heaven.

[auxbuss]

What's that trick?

The trick is to setup a control for a MIDI track in the GRD, then alter the GRD settings to reflect the audio track that you wish to control.

Miraculously, when you do this, the Edit Setting command appears in the GRD, but it is still not in the dropdown list.

Specifically, do the following:
- Insert a MIDI track
- Select the following in the GRD for a control
- Device to Midi Mixer
- Channel/Category to Selected
- Value/Action to Edit
- Now change Device from Midi Mixer to VST Mixer
- You will find that Value/Action has changed to Edit/ Setting, and when you use the control, the Channel Settings window will appear.

one problem is Dave Nicholson suffers from what I call I.L.S (Image Line Syndrome) in the fact he thinks he knows everything already and what makes the user think they know what he doesnt already.

The nudge buttons were originally removed from SX2/N2. This showed a complete absence of experience of anyone using a tablet - common in post. There are plenty more examples - a few of which are discussed here.

but for me some things in the handling department are just implemented... err... well... I really better don't say how I think they are implemented as it might start some flames, nothing that I'm on about

I moved from Logic to Nuendo 1. Without the equivalent of screensets - which Cubase VST lacked - there was no way that I would have moved. Window Layouts, as they were, was the clincher. The ergonomics have been reduced massively by trying to make SX behave like VST. For example, the "Alway on top" kludge, and the proliferation of window after window while simultaneously removing key commands - and, for more than a year, the Generic Remote. It's a great shame that someone didn't understand what was there before tearing it down.

When selecting a track in my project/arrange, with a mixer opened already (tiled windows), is there a way to have the mixer jump to the appropriate channel? I find myself scrolling around in the mixer WAY too much and I didn't even attempt a halfway complex project yet. So, a mixer that would follow my arrange would just be great.

You could do this SX1, but not in SX2. This has been raised with Steinberg and rejected.

As I mentioned, I circumvent this problem by keeping the Channel Settings open in the lower half of the screen - and closing the Inspector, which is redundant in this case, thus giving me more horizontal real estate. It means losing a third of the vertical real estate of the Event Display, but I no longer find this a problem, since I have configured and customised most of zoom controls to make moving around easy, plus mouse-wheel scrolling. None of this hoopla is necessary in Nuendo 1.

[topaz]

sounds about right, thats a bug in itself.

steinberg have major problems picking out the good guys from the bad ones.

why the hell they never spent a day or 2 scanning the forums for users that talk sense/contribute/
report bugs etc and pulling them into a private beta forum is beyond me still.

saying that coming from VST to LAP I found myself spending hours trying to workaround stuff in logic wich I dont seem to do in SX, still a fine beta test programme is always a cool thing to have.

[ This has been raised with Steinberg and rejected.

[vic_france]

"Chase Events"...
Preferences..Click on word "MIDI" in list on the left..whole list of "chaseable" events appears on right.

[Sascha Franck]

Thanks for the detailed answer, Marc. Will give it a go later on!

The weird thing is that you have now said something like "possible in SX 1 , removed in SX 2" for some times...
What drugs are they on then?
How could one even think about removing a MOST useful feature such as a "linked" mixer???
Really, this is so strange.

And thanks to Vic again (he also sorted me out with syncing Kontakt's LFOs - seems as if you meet all those computer musicians like everywhere...).
Will try that as well.

[Sascha Franck]

My oh my... I'm REALLY losing hairs here!

OK, for now (until I will perhaps find a better solution) I was planning to use the "e" button shown under the VST Instruments automation thingy track list, to bring me straight to the audio channel settings. Then I selected allways on top, to get rid of at least a bit of all this tiled window madness.
Fine.
But, I can't play the instrument in question anymore as soon as I press the "e" button. Ok, no problem (at least that's what I thought), I would just select the MIDI track again to play the instrument.
But WHAT THE f**k?!? Now the MIDI channel settings will pop up, greatly replacing my VSTi audio channel window that I just brought up!!!

This is SOOO CLUELESS I can't believe it.

But allright, maybe one of you clever folks know some cure to this as well (I mean, it seems as if you must be used to workarounds...).
Is there any?
What's the FASTEST way to get to the VSTi audio channel settings WHILE being able to play it and WITH the audio channel window staying opened?
I really don't want to open the mixer for this as I want my arrange to stay opened at the largest size SX is allowing.

--- OK, 5 minutes later ---

I even brought up the mixer.
I clicked the "e" button there.
I didn't even chose "allways on top" (just to be on the safe side).
I HAD to select my MIDI track again because I wanted to play the instrument WHILE testing out some send/insert effects.

Isn't this possible at all???
Seriously, I can't seem to find ANY solution to this.
Can't you really fool around with insert settings WHILE playing a VSTi?
If this is so, I won't be able to believe it, not at all.

--- OK, again 5 minutes later (didn't want to make myself looking like a complete moron again)---

It works now, had to switch off "Mixer follows selection in arrange" in the preferences.
But uhm - isn't that extremely lame? I actually WANT my mixer to follow my arrange selections, but I don't want the audio channel "pop-up" to follow as well.
Also, the fact that this is a global setting, rather than a song only or (which would be even better) a "per popup/editor" setting is lame as well.
Yes, I shouldn't compare to Logic too much, I know, but in that case I can only tell you HOW much better it is done there. You can select the "catch/link" status for ANY editor, mixer window or plugin UI window on a "per situation" base.

Really, I'm having a tough time right now.

[topaz]

try turning the track monitor on then that track will play no matter what you select.

I do understand your pain Sascha.

I was exactly the same with logic trying to setup multi out vsti's, DID MY HEAD IN, the most dumb thing I ever saw, even Fruity f**king loops had multiouts when I was using logic.

also the lack of mute per midi note in editors was so crappy.

you will get there, there is no host that does it all
im afraid. (yet)

My oh my... I'm REALLY losing hairs here!

OK, for now (until I will perhaps find a better solution) I was planning to use the "e" button shown under the VST Instruments automation thingy track list, to bring me straight to the audio channel settings. Then I selected allways on top, to get rid of at least a bit of all this tiled window madness.
Fine.
But, I can't play the instrument in question anymore as soon as I press the "e" button. Ok, no problem (at least that's what I thought), I would just select the MIDI track again to play the instrument.
But WHAT THE f**k?!? Now the MIDI channel settings will pop up, greatly replacing my VSTi audio channel window that I just brought up!!!

This is SOOO CLUELESS I can't believe it.

But allright, maybe one of you clever folks know some cure to this as well (I mean, it seems as if you must be used to workarounds...).
Is there any?
What's the FASTEST way to get to the VSTi audio channel settings WHILE being able to play it and WITH the audio channel window staying opened?
I really don't want to open the mixer for this as I want my arrange to stay opened at the largest size SX is allowing.

--- OK, 5 minutes later ---

I even brought up the mixer.
I clicked the "e" button there.
I didn't even chose "allways on top" (just to be on the safe side).
I HAD to select my MIDI track again because I wanted to play the instrument WHILE testing out some send/insert effects.

Isn't this possible at all???
Seriously, I can't seem to find ANY solution to this.
Can't you really fool around with insert settings WHILE playing a VSTi?
If this is so, I won't be able to believe it, not at all.

--- OK, again 5 minutes later (didn't want to make myself looking like a complete moron again)---

It works now, had to switch off "Mixer follows selection in arrange" in the preferences.
But uhm - isn't that extremely lame? I actually WANT my mixer to follow my arrange selections, but I don't want the audio channel "pop-up" to follow as well.
Also, the fact that this is a global setting, rather than a song only or (which would be even better) a "per popup/editor" setting is lame as well.
Yes, I shouldn't compare to Logic too much, I know, but in that case I can only tell you HOW much better it is done there. You can select the "catch/link" status for ANY editor, mixer window or plugin UI window on a "per situation" base.

Really, I'm having a tough time right now.