Korg Minilogue

[IncarnateX]

I'm not talking to you

And I'm not talking to you. But I may talk about you. I'll leave that as an open question for the masses to decide

[ghettosynth]

I'm not talking to you

And I'm not talking to you. But I may talk about you. I'll leave that as an open question for the masses to decide

There's so much cringe in that sentence I don't even know where to begin.

[IncarnateX]

I'm not talking to you

And I'm not talking to you. But I may talk about you. I'll leave that as an open question for the masses to decide

There's so much cringe in that sentence I don't even know where to begin.

Then don't begin at all. Just add me to your foe list and that should do it according to your own statements elsewhere.

[IncarnateX]

You're jumping to wild conclusions.

Statements followed by question marks seldomly qualify as conclusions but they may reflect a well founded hypothesis. As said, I' ll leave it open for now.

[Wormhelmet]

I may understand people complaining about the clicks if they actually bought/are interested in buying minilogue and expected none to be there at all, but what is it with all those fury and fighting "experts" who just insist on making it a general problem to everyone though they apparently isn't interested in getting the synth at all. What are their motives? Altruism? Or is this really about catching the chance to display themselves as technical experts and bullying those that don't take their authority for granted? Hmm...hmm...hmm?

You're jumping to wild conclusions. I can't speak for others but I'm interested in all new analog synths even if I'm not in the market right away. There are very few synths that I buy immediately on release. In fact I can think of only four in my purchase history. The Nord Modular, the Future Retro 777, and Uhe's Diva and Bazille. In the case of the Nord and the FR I purchased them sight unseen. I understand that desire to have something that's really groundbreaking and interesting and being willing to overlook flaws. We all decide for ourselves how important those flaws are. BTW: Both the FR and the NM had limitations on first release and talking about them in public did have an effect on the future of the product.

In this case, I'm very interested in everything that there is to know about this new synth. It's interesting from many points of view. I want to know about the click problem in detail, I want to know about the design. I might eventually buy one, or, I might by a more serious future version of it.

Since I own many analogs, IMNSHO, 12 voices is the minimum number of voices for a pad synth and six is the minimum number for a basic poly. So no, I'm not immediately interested in this as a product, but I'm very interested in how Korg addresses these issues and where they take the design in the future.

I come here to talk about music technology with like minded people. Pretty much, if you find yourself talking about other people instead of talking about the technology, you're the source of the drama, and really, I'm not talking to you.

Well I own one since a week before NAMM and am entirely uninterested in the click discussion as it doesn't seem a big deal to me. I'm getting some great sounds out of it and its a very fun little $499 bundle. Seems to be all you want to talk about here. Really odd if uninterested.

It seems a lot of non-owners making a bigger deal of it than owners.

There are plenty of sounds you can get besides the click and plenty of cool features to talk about too. Maybe you could mix it up and force yourself to talk about other aspects even though you aren't interested in it.....

[Daags]

no one denied that the clicks weren't happening in that dweebs $500 VS $25,000 analogue shoot-out.

just that the patches he was creating to illustrate this problem were insane, and never likely to be used to create anything resembling music.

the same can be said of the matrix synth blog post of the user who pointed out the envelope behaviour as if it was a bug, rather than a design decision .... he used completely unlikely settings for a mono patch, on a poly synth, to point it out.

These people should prove their point by creating patches that are actually likely to be used in the pursuit of music making, show me that this clicking is happening then and an issue - and then I'll be convinced (at least as convinced as one can be, by youtube) that this is a massive design or production snafu.

Why are those videos non-existent ? Why are there so many examples of the minilogue making great & varied sounds with no obstructive click issues ?


until such videos manifest, it's just some neckbearded dweebs on the spectrum adding another 'look what i got' video to their playlist filled with other 'look what i got' videos.


And btw, as i stated previously, of course I wouldn't object to additional voice modes to change the envelope behaviour. But there's no way that it is the issue it has been made out to be. Not for the purposes of making music anyway. If you want a scientific instrument you may want to look elsewhere, or buy some vintage gear that behaves the way you want.

[ghettosynth]

no one denied that the clicks weren't happening in that dweebs $500 VS $25,000 analogue shoot-out.

That isn't how I recall the discussion going, either then, or now. People are absolutely claiming that the clicks aren't a problem "for them." So what? How is that helpful in understanding the problem?

just that the patches he was creating to illustrate this problem were insane, and never likely to be used to create anything resembling music.

You often use extreme examples to demonstrate problems. Then you try to bound the problem from those examples. They were hardly "insane" just because they aren't what you would use.

The point is, no matter what you thought of the examples, they demonstrated the problem.

the same can be said of the matrix synth blog post of the user who pointed out the envelope behaviour as if it was a bug, rather than a design decision .... he used completely unlikely settings for a mono patch, on a poly synth, to point it out.

Hardly, again, he was demonstrating the problem in a clear cut manner. In fact, I've often used patches on a monosynth in that way. You may think it a "design decision", but others view it as a bug. The most charitable statement that can be made is that it is a bad design decision.

These people should prove their point by creating patches that are actually likely to be used in the pursuit of music making, show me that this clicking is happening then and an issue - and then I'll be convinced (at least as convinced as one can be, by youtube) that this is a massive design or production snafu.

They show that there is a problem. Whether that's a problem for you is
something that only you can decide. If a click shows up once in your performance because of some edge case, then that might ruin a great performance. Maybe you don't mind, but you don't get to decide whether other people will be concerned about that.

And btw, as i stated previously, of course I wouldn't object to additional voice modes to change the envelope behaviour. But there's no way that it is the issue it has been made out to be. Not for the purposes of making music anyway.

For you, perhaps. I thought the mono video did a nice job of highlighting where the problem most likely is. Because you don't use synths that way doesn't mean that other people don't. It's a lot more common than you think.

[Daags]

no one denied that the clicks weren't happening in that dweebs $500 VS $25,000 analogue shoot-out.

That isn't how I recall the discussion going, either then, or now. People are absolutely claiming that the clicks aren't a problem "for them." So what? How is that helpful in understanding the problem?

Have you read the full thread yet btw ? Because you entered it with the disclaimer that you hadn't. It may be useful to know this, so that in responding to you I can tell what you should know & remember.

Anyway. I don't mince my words here. There's a distinction to be made between 'happening' (the word I used) and 'problem' ... the word you used. And yes, you're correct, people are/were stating clearly that the clicking - as illustrated in the insanely patched $500 V $25,000 shootout - was not likely to be a problem for them since, presumably, they'll be using their instrument to make patches you'd actually use to make music.

just that the patches he was creating to illustrate this problem were insane, and never likely to be used to create anything resembling music.

You often use extreme examples to demonstrate problems. Then you try to bound the problem from those examples. They were hardly "insane" just because they aren't what you would use.

No. with respect to making music, and we are discussing a musical instrument here, they were and are insane. That is an objective truth. Disagree if you like.

The point is, no matter what you thought of the examples, they demonstrated the problem.

it is a musical instrument. how much of a problem it is is inextricably linked to how it may negatively effect making music. So when you need to create completely off the wall patches that are totally unrelated to making music, then you are not really demonstrating a problem in the pursuit of making music. The people for whom this is a significant problem have neckbeards and sit around in basements that smell like stale sweat and cheetos.

the same can be said of the matrix synth blog post of the user who pointed out the envelope behaviour as if it was a bug, rather than a design decision .... he used completely unlikely settings for a mono patch, on a poly synth, to point it out.

Hardly, again, he was demonstrating the problem in a clear cut manner. In fact, I've often used patches on a monosynth in that way. You may think it a "design decision", but others view it as a bug. The most charitable statement that can be made is that it is a bad design decision.

he was demonstrating the envelope behaviour in the mono mode of a polyphonic synth. he was comparing it to a dedicated vintage mono synth, with very long pad-like envelope settings to try and present this behaviour as a bug rather than a design decision. had he used this mono mode to, you know, dial in something crazy like...you know...a bass or lead patch... what he might have demonstrated was that this envelope behaviour actually has desireable, punchy, qualities. But then, doing that would only further illustrate that it is probably a design decision - which won't please everyone, as design decisions often dont - and not a bug. And we can't have that.

Anyway, like I said a few times now, in this respect I have no objections to other mono envelope behaviours being added - but not at the loss of the existing behaviour, or any other voice modes for that matter. But if they did replace one mono mode with another, I'd live with it.

These people should prove their point by creating patches that are actually likely to be used in the pursuit of music making, show me that this clicking is happening then and an issue - and then I'll be convinced (at least as convinced as one can be, by youtube) that this is a massive design or production snafu.

They show that there is a problem. Whether that's a problem for you is
something that only you can decide. If a click shows up once in your performance because of some edge case, then that might ruin a great performance. Maybe you don't mind, but you don't get to decide whether other people will be concerned about that.

Hmmm ? Like I said... These people should prove their point by creating patches that are actually likely to be used in the pursuit of music making, show me that this clicking is happening then and an issue - and then I'll be convinced (at least as convinced as one can be, by youtube) that this is a massive design or production snafu.

Why are those videos non-existent ? Why are there so many examples of the minilogue making great & varied sounds with no obstructive click issues ?

And btw, as i stated previously, of course I wouldn't object to additional voice modes to change the envelope behaviour. But there's no way that it is the issue it has been made out to be. Not for the purposes of making music anyway.

For you, perhaps. I thought the mono video did a nice job of highlighting where the problem most likely is. Because you don't use synths that way doesn't mean that other people don't. It's a lot more common than you think.

what problem ? the $500 V $25,000 insane-no-one-would-ever-create-this-patch-to-make-music shootout scenario isn't a 'problem' in the realm of making music.
the matrix synth video is demonstrating a design decision as far as I'm concerned and I've given my thoughts on it already before and further up this post.


ymmv.

[dumbledog]

Holy shit you people.

[IncarnateX]

Old MacKorg he had a synth i ai i ai oo
This synth could make a lot of noise i ai i ai oo
And there were clicking here, clicking there, clickily clickings everywhere
Old MacKorg he had a synth i ai i ai oo

The experts came to show us all i ai i ai oo
The clickings were a major fault i ai i ai oo
And there were demos here, graphics there, proof and arguments everywhere
Old MacKorg he had a synth i ai i ai oo

The customers were striked with fear i ai i ai oo
Are clickings something I will hear? i ai i ai oo
And there were tremblings here, shakings there, scream and shoutings everywhere
Old MacKorg he had a synth i ai i ai oo

The owners had no take on it i ai i ai oo
They did not give a flying shit i ai i ai oo
And there were praising here, “amazing” there, love, devotion everywhere
Old MacKorg he had a synth i ai i ai oo

The experts could not live with this i ai i ai oo
And bathed all in techy piss i ai i ai oo
And there were pee-pee here, soaking there, "but I’m an expert” everywhere
Old MacKorg he had a synth i ai i ai oo

So what can we all learn from this i ai i ai oo
To run away when experts piss i ai i ai oo
And there is run-run here, “take cover” there, “please God save us” everywhere.
Old MacKorg he had a synth iiiiii aiiiii iiiii aiiii oooooooo!



Disclaimer: I’m only kidding, so don’t wind yourself up now

[ghettosynth]

No. with respect to making music, and we are discussing a musical instrument here, they were and are insane. That is an objective truth. Disagree if you like.

Your statement doesn't factually make any sense at all. Even if we disregard the fact that insane in this context is hyperbolic language, you are not an authority on what is and isn't music. If someone can create a sound with an instrument then that sound can conceivably be a part of a musical context. That is a fact, there is nothing that anyone can say to counter that. You simply lack the authority to tell other people which sounds are and are not musical.

he was demonstrating the envelope behaviour in the mono mode of a polyphonic synth.

Full stop. Since the problem also exists in poly mode, and the behavior is incorrect in either mode, it was an example to easily demonstrate the problem with the envelope. If you weren't so focused on trying to discredit others you might be able to see how it was a useful demo.

what problem ? the $500 V $25,000

Price has nothing to do with this. Moreover, no synth in his collection cost $25k new or used, and, the minilogue is certainly comparable to synths of the past which, while valuable today, were considered entry level in their day. Synths like the SH-101, the Juno 60, the Prophet 600 were all entry level budget synths and none of them had this problem.

The choice to force a reset (discharge) of the EG without consideration of the rapid DC offset is a bad choice. We now know, through the efforts of others that this problem exists and we are most likely able to attribute it to a specific issue. That is useful and helpful information for anyone considering purchase. Each person can decide for themselves whether or not it is something that they can live with.

There's nothing there to argue with. I'm not sure at this point what you're trying to accomplish by continuing to insult others?

[Mushy Mushy]

Holy shit you people.

[IncarnateX]

Why are there so many examples of the minilogue making great & varied sounds with no obstructive click issues ?

Oh we have already heard some experts' answer to that. There are two variants:

1. The experts can hear them on each and every demo (consequently the rest of us must be deaf)

2. Even if we do not hear them, they are there and add up to a muddy sound, thus working at a subliminal level (consequently denial is ignorance)

Who needs proof with arguments like that?

Obviously there is no way to beat the technocracy. Next logical step is procecutions and extermination of non-believers. Preaching us to death by suicide is only one of their strategies, they will come up with more, no doubt.

[IncarnateX]

And about the afore mentioned motives of the technocracy I hereby admit my questions were retorical. As a shrink, I do not really need more than a few introductional "slips" like these

LOL do i really need to make a crappy picture in MS Paint to show all the newbies here what is the difference between fast envelopes that can give you a click if you set it that way and a broken synth that clicks on both slow attack and slow release ?

I don't know if the click issue is still raging, I'm not going to read this thread, it's a cesspool of fanbois and nonsense with only a few tiny islands of reason.

to know that these guys are not here to discuss technicalities but show themselves off, to mirror themselves in a big imagined audience that will admire their (delusional) superiority. You don't need ortodox psychoanalysis, but common sense only, to consider such acts as compensations of insecurity and very low self esteem.

But no worries, I don't despise them for that, but pity them.

[Numanoid]

Wow, this is one of two or three threads I see today where this is a matter

It is like synths or plugs is a conversation vehicle for deeper understanding of issues in a being