Sundog Scale Studio 2.2 coming soon: Undo/redo BETA available

[Musical Gym]

Can anyone tell me the steps for syncing Sundog with Studio One with either one acting as master or slave?

[dsan@mail.com]

Can anyone tell me the steps for syncing Sundog with Studio One with either one acting as master or slave?

I'm using S1 v2.65 but think it should be the same setup for v3.

You need a set of virtual MIDI cables; something like loopMIDI http://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html, or CopperLAN http://www.copperlan.org/.

First set up your virtual MIDI cables and then proceed to S1. Be sure S1 and Sundog Scale Studio are not running when you install the virtual MIDI.


Studio 1 can only be used as a Master, AFAIK.

In S1, open the options menu and select "External Devices".

Now, choose "Add".

The dialog should open to "New Instrument". If not then choose that as your source.

Set the name of the "Device Model" to something that makes sense to you, i.e. "VMIDI 1 (from the CopperLAN setup), or loopMIDI 1 (from the loopMIDI setup).

"Manufacturer" can be left blank or you can enter something that makes sense to you.

"Device Name" - again, something that makes sense to you.

"Receive From" should be set to the virtual MIDI port you wish to use. Let's set this to the name of the port you used when you installed one of the virtual MIDI cables, such as VMIDI 1.

"Send To" - again, set it to the port you wish to send MIDI data over. Let's say the same port, VMIDI 1.

Set "MIDI Channels" to "ALL".

Check the boxes "Send MIDI Clock" and "Use MIDI Clock Start".

Click "OK" and close the Options dialog.


Now, on to set up Sundog Scale Studio.

In Sundog, choose Settings and then Preferences.

MIDI OUT - In this case, since S1 will only act as a Master, you will use MIDI OUT to send the Sundog Studio MIDI data to a VST. Set this to any port except the one you used in S1 for MIDI OUT.

MIDI IN - select the "OUT", or "Send MIDI To" device you set up in Studio 1. That will be VMIDI 1 if you followed my suggestion above.

For "Receive MIDI Clock Sync From Device" you will use the port from S1 as you did "MIDI In" above.

"Send MIDI Clock Sync" should be set "On". Although this is probably not relevant since S1 will act as Master only.

Now, back to S1. When you start playback in S1, Sundog Scale Studio should now start the sequence and send its MIDI data to the vst(s) you have selected in S1. Be sure you set the channels properly.

Some DAW's allow "Act as Slave" and Sundog Scale Studio will act as Master. The settings then are a bit different.

You can play around with the settings to see which is best for your set up, but be cautious - you do not want to send and receive over the same channel. You probably already know about the short circuit this creates and the dangers of this.

I don't think I missed anything but just in case, I'll be around for a bit if you run into trouble, MG

HTH

Cheers!

[Musical Gym]

Thanks very much dsan, I appreciate it a lot. I use virtual midi ports regularly, but the instrument master slave thing still has me stumped. I'll keep working on it and report back later if I'm successful.

Edit: I'm getting it to work; right now Sundog doesn't respond unless I have some midi data in my Sundog track in S1; I think it should respond without it. Will analyze, document, and report back.

Edit2: I guess I have it working ok now. I still need at least one midi note in S1 Sundog track to get Sundog to respond.

[dsan@mail.com]

.....Edit: I'm getting it to work; right now Sundog doesn't respond unless I have some midi data in my Sundog track in S1; I think it should respond without it. Will analyze, document, and report back.

Edit2: I guess I have it working ok now. I still need at least one midi note in S1 Sundog track to get Sundog to respond.

After you reported this MG, I went back to S1 and find I don't need anything in the track to start the transport in Sundog. All I do is start playback in S1 and Sundog transport starts immediately.

One caveate though, S1 does not do "Continue" very well. This is a long standing problem it seems (searching around the webz) that Presonus has done nothing to fix.

I did some more digging though and find some problems.

I'm using rptMIDI to start/stop/continue. I have checked all boxes in the set-up dialog. Earlier I told you to not check the last box "Send MIDI Timecode". After digging into it I realized S1 has to send Timecode. Please enable this in your settings.

Now, if I use CopperLAN, no matter what I enable I cannot get Sundog Scale Studio to respond and start the transport.

So, if you are not now using rptMIDI for this, begin doing so. I'm sure you will succeed now.

HTH
Cheers!

[Musical Gym]

Thanks dsan, I will go back and check the timecode box and see what happens.

Edit: Still not working; I don't know if I need rptMIDI since I'm using loopBe30 already?

I have Sundog set up as an Instrument since Keyboard doesn't have the midi clock/timecode options.
Then I have loopBe30 set to control FM8.
With one note of midi data in Sundog track, I can stop start both apps in sync. And FM8 plays as expected as long as FM8's track has focus. If I mute midi note in Sundog track, it stops working (sending/receiving).

[dsan@mail.com]

Thanks dsan, I will go back and check the timecode box and see what happens.

Edit: Still not working; I don't know if I need rptMIDI since I'm using loopBe30 already?

I have Sundog set up as an Instrument since Keyboard doesn't have the midi clock/timecode options.
Then I have loopBe30 set to control FM8.
With one note of midi data in Sundog track, I can stop start both apps in sync. And FM8 plays as expected as long as FM8's track has focus. If I mute midi note in Sundog track, it stops working (sending/receiving).

I don't think rptMIDI will help you in this case. For whatever reason I assumed you were using 2 machines over LAN. rptMIDI is a LAN device.

Now I realize you are on one machine and loopBe30 should suffice.

I think the problem is this, "I have Sundog set up as an Instrument".

It's fine if you want to create an instument and name it "Sundog"; however, Sundog is not your MIDI port. On the setup dialog for "Sundog", you should select loopBe30 as your "Send To" port.

Then, in the actual Sundog Studio program, you should set "Receive MIDI Sync From" to loopBe30 and "Send MIDI Out" to loopBe30. Leave "MIDI In Device" as "None".

To test if you are getting communication, in S1 create track of FM8. Set the INPUT to loopbe30 and the channel you have chosen for Sundog program to send over.

Press the transport start on S1 and this should tell Sundog program to start playing the sequence, send the MIDI data to FM8 in S1 and play the sounds.

If all of this does not happen then the problem is in your routing and we'll need to double check this.

Now, for why FM8 only plays when that track has focus - this is because of how S1 does monitoring.

You can monitor multiple tracks in S1 by pressing the "Monitor" or "Record" buttons on each track. Then, every track you have enabled will play sound.

HTH
Cheers!

[Musical Gym]

loopBe 30 has 01 Internal Midi through 30 Internal Midi.
My current settings in S1 for it are to Receive From 04 Internal Midi and Send To 03 Internal Midi. Then in Sundog app I have Midi Out Device set to 04 Internal Midi and Midi In Device set to 03 Internal Midi. Receive Midi Clock Sync is set to 01 Internal Midi in Sundog. FM8 track in S1 is set to channel 1.

[dsan@mail.com]

This all sounds like good routing, but, in S1, did you create an instrument for 01 Internal MIDI to send the sync data?

Even though the port is available, it sounds like you are not yet using it in S1.

And the FM8 track has the input set to receive 04 Internal MIDI port on channel 1?

This could be the final step

[Musical Gym]

This all sounds like good routing, but, in S1, did you create an instrument for 01 Internal MIDI to send the sync data?

Not sure what this instrument would be? Is it just a sender without a vst in it? This may be where I'm confused. I think I had one I called Sundog before, but it needed a midi note in the track.

Even though the port is available, it sounds like you are not yet using it in S1.

And the FM8 track has the input set to receive 04 Internal MIDI port on channel 1?

This could be the final step

[Musical Gym]

I gave up for the day but thought to check status of ports on loopBe30 interface. Internal 01 had been automatically muted probably due to conflict in my S1 settings. I unmuted the port in loopBe30, pressed Play in S1 and Sundog responded.
I'll make sure everything else is working later today. Domo arigato gozaimasu, dsan!

[dsan@mail.com]

Glad to hear you got it solved MG

Cheers!

[Musical Gym]

thanks a gain

One peculiarity: S1 is set to 90 bpm; Sundog set to 90 bpm; playback from S1 and Sundog jumps to 180 bpm and then while playing at 180, it starts a variation between 179 and 181 bpm.

Is that anything to be concerned about? I doubt that it affects results?

If there's no logical explanation, will send bug report to Hauke.

I set S1 to 45 bpm and Sundog went to 90 bpm. I can see where this could be annoying with a bunch of audio in S1 that might need to be stretched, re-stretched, etc.

I left playback on for awhile and Sundog is jumping all over the place bpm-wise. It also throws in a note at a higher octave on occasion.

[dsan@mail.com]

That one I've not run into before, but yes, I would think, that it could cause issues.

S1 is responsible for sending the timing and Sundog should follow along as the slave.

Good you sent off to Hauke. As responsive as he is I'm sure he will look into this.

You may want to post at the S1 forums and send an email to their support teams too.

Please do let us know how you get on with this. I hope not to encounter this problem but will be good to know if a solution is available.

Hope you get this sorted quick.

[Musical Gym]

thanks, will wait to hear from Hauke

[Musical Gym]

No word from Hauke yet, but testing tonight is going ok. Even though Sundog shows tempo as roughly double that of S1, it sounds like it's keeping time with S1 metronome. I have S1 going at 74 and Sundog is fluctuating between 147 and 149 so far.

I must say Sundog is one fun program.