KVR Audio

NAD · Post by **NAD** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:19 pm

Is this just me? Doesn't 35 gigs seem just a tad excessive? I mean, seriously….

Alan Lastufka · Post by **Alan Lastufka** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:45 pm

Not once you start playing them and can actually feel the drummer playing instead of a midi drum kit pounding away - and not all 35 gigs are for one patch obvioulsy - there are alot of differetn techniques involved - the cool thing is that they are all on one set so you can do varrying tracks next to each other and they will sound like a consistent session.

ChimeraMan · Post by **ChimeraMan** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:16 am

Seeing as the missus has given you the go-ahead..get;

BFD + XFL
DFH Superior
SID

Got all 3 here and they're each very unique..you can never have enough sounds. Every project is different!

btw..whoever says "i don't like the way the drummer plays" - get the actual product and then get a life, the drummer is YOU! The loops etc. incorporated with the software are exceptionally flexible and the feel of the BFD loops are actual triggers from a live player who will probably be a better drummer than you for as long as you've got a hole in yer arse.

Rik · Post by **Rik** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:33 am

ChimeraMan wrote:Seeing as the missus has given you the go-ahead..get;

BFD + XFL
DFH Superior
SID

Got all 3 here and they're each very unique..you can never have enough sounds. Every project is different!

Lucky you! But few people can afford the 3 of them...

ChimeraMan wrote: btw..whoever says "i don't like the way the drummer plays" - get the actual product and then get a life, the drummer is YOU! The loops etc. incorporated with the software are exceptionally flexible and the feel of the BFD loops are actual triggers from a live player who will probably be a better drummer than you for as long as you've got a hole in yer arse.

I did say that... The drummer is you but for some extend. I played with many drummers live and there is not a single drummer that has the same sound with the kick, snare and hihat. No matter how many velocities have been sampled and how many tracks, the drummer itself makes a difference.
I sayed that about BFD because I listened to the demos and I don't like them... all is fine, the programming, the sound but that is just not the kind of drumming I would get for my projects.

Erik.

ChimeraMan · Post by **ChimeraMan** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:07 am

I realise the point you're making Erik but..what i'm saying is..even though the demos do suck pretty badly (and yes it does sound like Tommy Lee shagging the kit), BFD (and SID,DFHS) don't have a "kind of drumming" associated with them. I have used BFD on a country rock project (and the drums sound like they've come straight out of Nashville) and also a couple rock tracks similar to AC/DC styleeee. It's not the "kind of drumming" that the programs offer, it's the "kind of drumming" that you can program. The amount of control that all 3 progs have to offer is plenty for even the most advanced drum programmers. Plus, the biggest influence on what sound you get is in which kit/pieces you use.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:26 am

FXpansion sampled Stewart Copeland's actual kit from the Police days for the XFL library. The hihat alone has something like 100 different velocities sampled, how rad is that?

btw, it may be worth noting that the drummer from Meshuggah played on the DFH library. Maybe that's why the library sounds so hard rock!

(j/k, Erik, I absolutely agree with your point about no two players sounding the same on the same kit)

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:08 am

Uncle E wrote: btw, it may be worth noting that the drummer from Meshuggah played on the DFH library. Maybe that's why the library sounds so hard rock!

He’s on DFHS too, along with Morgan Ågren (played with Zappa among others) who’s not exactly a hard rock dude.

All DFHS kits were recorded with sticks, rods, brushes and mallets (felt, plastic or wood beater for the kicks). Plus you get a full complement of percussion and a cocktail kit.

This is definitely not a library just for hard rock. Check out the mp3 demos at www.toontrack.com .

/Yoss

seacave · Post by **seacave** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:40 pm

Check out stormdrum!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... eName=WDVW

Gav

multree · Post by **multree** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:18 am

Yossarian wrote:
Uncle E wrote: btw, it may be worth noting that the drummer from Meshuggah played on the DFH library. Maybe that's why the library sounds so hard rock!
He’s on DFHS too, along with Morgan Ågren (played with Zappa among others) who’s not exactly a hard rock dude.

All DFHS kits were recorded with sticks, rods, brushes and mallets (felt, plastic or wood beater for the kicks). Plus you get a full complement of percussion and a cocktail kit.

This is definitely not a library just for hard rock. Check out the mp3 demos at www.toontrack.com .

/Yoss

Not all drums have brushes and mallets.... just some of them have....

O have DFHS and BFD + XFL here and although DFHS is cheaper it doesn't come close to the versatility BFD + XFL offers... sound wise they're pretty much both great (depending on your taste) and DFHS is way cheaper but the actual plugin makes the difference....

and that's a big one

for me it's BFD all the way.... (the plugin from the BFD and the sounds from the XFL)

there's nothing that will come closer to a real drummer (xcept for the plugin that makes a cymbal hit two times in a row add up the actual "schwingungen" god I'm too drunk to look that one up.....)

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:19 pm

multree wrote: Not all drums have brushes and mallets.... just some of them have....

Correct, my bad. For brushes, e.g., you get a selection of (I think) 4 snares – which is 4 more than you get with BFD (unless you get the XFL add-on).

Not ragging on BFD in any way - I have both, too and like them a lot. The BFD interface is slicker and it has that brilliant groove feature, I just think that people tend to make too much of the fact that DFHS doesn’t stream. It’s just a different way of working and sonically I actually prefer it to BFD, though I like having both around for variation.

When BFD gets midi out functionality it might actually make even more sense to have both. If you don’t like programming in DFHS you could re-map your DFHS kits to match BFD, do your programming in BFD and basically treat DFHS as added content. With DFHS in cached mode you get a low cpu hit and don’t use up too much RAM even if you use all the fancy bleeding options.

/Yoss

Emoshag · Post by **Emoshag** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:27 pm

Yossarian wrote:
Not ragging on BFD in any way - I have both, too and like them a lot. The BFD interface is slicker and it has that brilliant groove feature, I just think that people tend to make too much of the fact that DFHS doesn’t stream. It’s just a different way of working and sonically I actually prefer it to BFD, though I like having both around for variation.

OK, may I ask anyone to elaborate a little. I seem to always read "BFD is better, but DFH-Superior sounds better." I need to know more about what this refers to in terms of sonic quality. Here are some facts that may help answer my question...

1. - I think the DFH-Superior samples are slick.
2. - I think the BFD samples are... sub-par.
3. - The BFD documentation is excellent.
4. - The DFH-Superior documentation is non-existent.
5. - Like the idea of the room, overhead and PZM mics in BFD.
6. - I like the controllable bleed in DFH-Superior.

And of all the posts I read, it seems like everyone likes BFD more.... but thinks DFH-Superior sounds better.

Why?

I am in the market to buy one of them... and I am currently leaning towards BFD despite initially deciding to get DFH-Superior. However, because of the samples and the inability to demo either of them... DFH-Superior wins the award for sound. I really would like someone who uses both to explain the sonic differences in the two modules.

Its important to know how it sounds different... because it seems like the only thing you CANNOT tweak/engineer in either module is the source.

So how do they differ?

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 4:36 pm

You don’t have to hang around these forums for very long to realize just how subjective and individual our perception of sound is. I realize this is a bit of a cop-out but in the end it’s only you who knows what fits with your music. Would it be possible for you to have them demo’d at a music shop? Failing that I guess you’re left with the available audio demos. On the Toontrack forum there are a number of user demos of DFHS, there should be some for BFD somewhere, too

I’m not a drummer (and very much a beginner at programming drums) but to my ears DFHS has a slightly drier, up-close sound which I like. These are subtle differences, though and I would definitely not go so far as to say the BFD samples are sub-par – could you elaborate on that?

Note that I haven’t bought the XFL add-on so my only experience with BFD is with the original sample set.

/Yoss

Paul_FX · Post by **Paul_FX** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 4:54 pm

Get BFD - It kicks arse!

(but then i may be a bit biased!)

Paul

Jaeson Merrill · Post by **Jaeson Merrill** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 5:23 pm

its not just the grooves or the streaming...
the plugin is totally more innovative.

the folks at fpxansion are constantly adding to the engine of BFD, and its more of a drum workstation than just a rompler.

as far as sounding better, i have heard both in action, and i would just say sounds DIFFERENT. not better.

it would be cool if there was a way to make BFD read the DFHS kits for ultimate versatility

Aleatoric · Post by **Aleatoric** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 5:30 pm

I had BFD, got DFHS (as a beta tester) and sold BFD. DFHS is Superior.

Scarbee vs BFD