KVR Audio

Ciberithm · Post by **Ciberithm** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:52 am

deastman wrote:Oh, one more comment- my instant reaction upon touching the Seaboard waves for the first time was that it felt like I was fondling some alien lifeform!

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Vintage73 · Post by **Vintage73** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:12 am

deastman wrote:Oh, one more comment- my instant reaction upon touching the Seaboard waves for the first time was that it felt like I was fondling some alien lifeform!

I love the feel of silicone, so that sure doesn't bother me.

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:49 am

I've moved on from the standalone Equator app and I'm trying to get things working in Bitwig. A few bumps in the road so far...

First of all, when I launch Dashboard for RISE and then run Bitwig, Bitwig gives me an error message on startup that it was unable to connect to an existing application. I was able to create a new controller for the Seaboard, but of course none of that was mentioned in the Roli guide to working with Bitwig.

I'm also finding that I can't get the pitch bend range to match up. I've loaded Equator as a VST in Bitwig. Both Dashboard and Equator VST have the bend range set to 48. But when I try to use the glide strips on the Seaboard, it doesn't bend the notes far enough. I don't see anywhere else in Bitwig to set a global bend range. And of course, none of this was mentioned in the Roli guide to Bitwig.

Speaking of the VST, Roli didn't give me any choice on where to install it. I eventually found it buried in a Steinberg folder which it also created, despite that not being the standard path to my VST folder.

lolilol1975 · Post by **lolilol1975** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:34 pm

deastman wrote: Speaking of the VST, Roli didn't give me any choice on where to install it. I eventually found it buried in a Steinberg folder which it also created, despite that not being the standard path to my VST folder.

Ah, that's annoying, especially since that Steinberg folder is usually on C:\, and C:\ is a small SSD that is supposed to carry the OS and a few vital components only, I certainly don't want to have my VSTs there.

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:59 am

I got the pitch bend range sorted out when using Equator inside of Bitwig. I had to set the Dashboard to +/-24, and Equator to 48. I don't know why they didn't use the same numbering approach in both programs, but obviously that works out to the same range.

Also, I haven't experienced any more loss of connections since the first day. It might have just been a loose USB connection or something. I'll post an update if it happens again.

I also played around with Omnisphere a little bit. It doesn't natively support MPE, so its a bit of a pain to work with it. Basically, you have to be in single channel mode while you select presets or create patches. Once you have a patch that you want to perform with, you clone the part to all eight parts of a multi, each on it's own midi channel. If Omnisphere didn't sound so good, I probably wouldn't bother with any of that. I'm sure most other synths will be even more of a pain, especially if I have to create multiple instances of the synth on different channels. Bottom line, this is still kind of the bleeding edge of MIDI controllers. Hopefully after MPE becomes part of the official MIDI standard, we'll start to see a rapid upswing in the number of synths properly implementing it.

Vintage73 · Post by **Vintage73** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:23 pm

deastman wrote:It does come bundled with the 8 track version of Bitwig, so you can always use that if your other DAW didn't fully support it. I've only recently bought the full Bitwig studio and haven't completely learned my way around it yet, but this will probably push me to do so. I think Sonar fully supports multi channel recording, but editing the results probably isn't much fun. And I also have Live, but that isn't supported in any realistic way... Hopefully everyone gets on board with MPE soon.

I've downloaded the trial of Bitwig, and I must say that no multi-out MIDI is a little frustrating.

I think if I were to go for a Rise, I would probably get Cubase instead of Bitwig, but I'm willing to listen. I had a look at how to set up Studio One, and it seems a bit...tedious...but not horrendous.

My main concern is that I need something with aftertouch, and the Rise looks amazing, but it may not be what I actually need right now. Considering a Linnstrument and NI Komplete Kontrol, as well. The Rise just looks so cool, and I'd be able to get it before either of the other two.

One-note aftertouch in Zebra2/HZ is a little concerning, as it's my main synth right now.

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:57 pm

What do you mean by no multi-out MIDI in Bitwig?

To be clear, Bitwig is great at recording all the MIDI channels from the Seaboard and merging them into a single track view. Each note has all its own modulation data attached and can easily be edited. I haven't touched Cubase in many, many years, but my understanding is that it offers something similar. To me, Bitwig feels very modern and intelligently constructed. It is still a young product and lacking some of the bells and whistles of certain DAWs, but I'm very impressed so far. More than anything, it just feels like a ground-up rewrite of Ableton Live.

For me, the Seaboard vs. Linnstrument decision really just came down to being able to take advantage of forty years of experience with a piano keyboard layout. I think they're both great controllers.

Vintage73 · Post by **Vintage73** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:16 am

deastman wrote:What do you mean by no multi-out MIDI in Bitwig?

To be clear, Bitwig is great at recording all the MIDI channels from the Seaboard and merging them into a single track view. Each note has all its own modulation data attached and can easily be edited. I haven't touched Cubase in many, many years, but my understanding is that it offers something similar. To me, Bitwig feels very modern and intelligently constructed. It is still a young product and lacking some of the bells and whistles of certain DAWs, but I'm very impressed so far. More than anything, it just feels like a ground-up rewrite of Ableton Live.

For me, the Seaboard vs. Linnstrument decision really just came down to being able to take advantage of forty years of experience with a piano keyboard layout. I think they're both great controllers.

By Multi-Out MIDI, I mean using multiple tracks to control instruments like Kontakt to play multiple libraries on different MIDI channels. At least, when I looked up how to, it said you couldn't on Google. Unless I missed something.

If it's possible to do that, I may get Bitwig, but I'm still leaning toward Cubase if I need to get another host.

Between the Linnstrument and Rise, I'm leaning toward the Rise, if I can work out the details.

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:22 am

Blue Phase Music wrote:
deastman wrote:What do you mean by no multi-out MIDI in Bitwig?

To be clear, Bitwig is great at recording all the MIDI channels from the Seaboard and merging them into a single track view. Each note has all its own modulation data attached and can easily be edited. I haven't touched Cubase in many, many years, but my understanding is that it offers something similar. To me, Bitwig feels very modern and intelligently constructed. It is still a young product and lacking some of the bells and whistles of certain DAWs, but I'm very impressed so far. More than anything, it just feels like a ground-up rewrite of Ableton Live.

For me, the Seaboard vs. Linnstrument decision really just came down to being able to take advantage of forty years of experience with a piano keyboard layout. I think they're both great controllers.
By Multi-Out MIDI, I mean using multiple tracks to control instruments like Kontakt to play multiple libraries on different MIDI channels. At least, when I looked up how to, it said you couldn't on Google. Unless I missed something.

If it's possible to do that, I may get Bitwig, but I'm still leaning toward Cubase if I need to get another host.

Between the Linnstrument and Rise, I'm leaning toward the Rise, if I can work out the details.

I see what you mean. This is pretty off topic but anyway... I'm still very inexperienced with Bitwig, but it's true, when I route a controller to an instrument, I don't see a place to specify the MIDI channel. Fortunately, I haven't worked that way (multitimbral single VST instances) since the days of multitimbral hardware synths, so it isn't a huge issue for me.

Vintage73 · Post by **Vintage73** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:41 am

Ciberithm wrote:Yes, but only on one note at a time. The slide motion (up and down on the keys) send CC74 so you will want to map that to whatever you want to modulate. I expected it to send CC1. Any patches that use Modwheel will need to be remapped to use CC74 instead, unless you have software that can rewrite the CC on the fly.

Quick question on this (aftertouch and Zebra2): is this because of using the Rise in monophonic mode, or because of Zebra? In other words, would you only be able to use aftertouch on one not with the Linnstrument or Komplete Kontrol with Zebra2, as well?

I know it seems I'm going off-topic with these questions, but I promise it's related to me wanting to know what I'm getting into with the Rise before I purchase (or not).

For a little background information, right now, all I have is a Nektar Impulse LX49 controller and an M-Audio Keystation 88es, which isn't even hooked up right now for lack of space.

Ciberithm · Post by **Ciberithm** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:41 am

In single channel mode, which you will need to use the pitch-bend/slide with Zebra, only one notes pressure gets sent as after-touch. I tried configuring the Roli to use lowest key, highest key, and last key pressed to send the after-touch info, but it sounded like Zebra always applied the after-touch to the highest note played. I'm not a Zebra expert, but I don't believe it supports modulation per-note. The same holds true for most VST's.

I don't believe either keyboard you have now has after-touch, so I think you will like the Roli. I got mine from Sweetwater and they have a nice return policy in case you don't like it. Unfortunately, you have to register the Roli to get the drivers, but if you know someone who has one (hint, hint) they might be willing to share the drivers so you can try it out.

Vintage73 · Post by **Vintage73** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:59 am

Thank you.

No, neither of my controllers have aftertouch, so getting something that does will be a whole new experience for me.

Looks like I need to talk to the good folks in the u-he forum. I wonder if the VST3 version of Zebra2 will work with polyphonic aftertouch. Just a thought.

The soonest I'll be able to move on this will be about a month or so, so I have a little time to think and annoy you all...I mean, as questions.

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:27 am

It doesn't appear that any of the U-he synths really support anything close to MPE at the moment, but they intend to add it once the spec is final.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 1&t=440604

That said, I'm still finding it an enjoyable and expressive experience to control just about any synth, even if that only means channel aftertouch.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:34 am

Blue Phase Music wrote:
deastman wrote:Oh, one more comment- my instant reaction upon touching the Seaboard waves for the first time was that it felt like I was fondling some alien lifeform!
I love the feel of silicone, so that sure doesn't bother me.

It is a very sensuous and tactile experience, very different from playing a hard, cold, keyboard.

thetechnobear · Post by **thetechnobear** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:46 pm

deastman wrote:It doesn't appear that any of the U-he synths really support anything close to MPE at the moment, but they intend to add it once the spec is final.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 1&t=440604

That said, I'm still finding it an enjoyable and expressive experience to control just about any synth, even if that only means channel aftertouch.

I wouldn't hold your breath on MPE spec being finalised, the MMA are very slow

u-he do support poly pressure, and also there voice per channel mode is also available. you can configure most controllers to use this instead.

the MPE requirement for u-he is partly about making configuration easier, and also so it would work with nicely with Bitwig. who are similarly, lacking a bit of flexibility about what we require as musicians now to make it work. e.g. they only send CC74 for Y, if they made this configurable, then U-he Vpc mode would be useable.

its a pain, a small change on either u-he or bitwig side would resolve this, but when I approach both, neither was interested at all. ( i own bitwig, and all u-he synths)

Roli Seaboard RISE