Hi guys, kindly looking for your help. For a long time being an acoustic musician, I am now shifting towards electronic music. I desperately need your recommendations on how to reach that trendy minimalistic synth pop sound as of the following songs:
Lapsley - Hurt me (vocal engines used in the beginning? drums, reverbs, piano?)
Troye Sivan - Wild (drum samples particularly toms, reverbs, bass, synths in the chorus)
Sorry in advance if I was wrong in naming the genre synth pop. Just new to the scene.
I am used to using Kontakt, so I am not afraid of heavy libraries. You can contribute your advices based on following topics:
1. Drumkit or samples sets with these trendy claps, toms, snares etc.
I am currently owning all EZdrummer libraries but need something universal and also trendy for electronic music
Does anyone use THAT SOUND packs?
2. Vocal engine to create those atmospherical detuned vocal patterns
3. Strongly need a reverb like that of Lapsley
4. Some nice bass line generator, easy to use, not too complicated
5. Piano for electronic music
Because 100 Gb of live sampled pianos that I have don't really work for electronic stuff
6. How to keep yourself updated on the new trendy samples, libraries releases? May be there are some forum topics devoted? Which brands and software companies should I keep my eyes open at?
Thank you all in advance for your competent advice!
Your recommendations for modern synth pop? (Lapsley, Troye Sivan etc.)
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- KVRer
- 3 posts since 17 Mar, 2016
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- KVRAF
- 1595 posts since 17 Nov, 2007 from Seattle, WA
Classic/retro drum machines will get you the most trend-proven drums. They're recognizable via repetition, if not quality, and recognizability is often exactly what some artists seek. They'll be EQ'd and put through light(or more) processing, but these songs never rely on the specificity and quality of drum sounds or their processing, except insofar as they're recognizable.
I'd guess that a large majority of the more popular artists are much more freewheeling or DIY, and just roll with whatever they have, make things fit without some larger sound palette in mind. Then have a mix engineer shine it up near the end. This has the massive side benefit of fostering productivity through limited choice, and avoiding decision paralysis. They probably have tons of songs with bad/stupid drums, but the minority of good tracks are the only ones you hear, each of them come upon via the inevitable probability that with lots of iteration & projects, something will eventually click.
So when you say "that sound," I'm skeptical it's actually a coherent pattern, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to illustrate.
Regarding point #2, there's a lot of ways to alter vocal samples, most of which can be done with a basic DAW, so I suspect you might want to give a specific example you'd like to emulate. The field is so wide open that it's difficult or impossible to speak generally - we could be talking about vastly different things while using the same language. So specificity is crucial in this area. With it, we can then tie it to actual techniques to put in your tool belt. Ambiance and vibe is merely the outcome, but technique is the means. You can tangibly work with one, but not so much the other. So post up a sample, say "how do I make that specific sound?" and then we're in business.
#3, You're probably better off sticking with the reverb you have, and getting the most out of it. At least, until you better understand what you're doing, what you're going after(technically), and how it potentially sounds as-is. When you're in new grounds like you find yourself now, you're overloaded with variables, and the last thing you ought to do is introduce more. Unless it's absolutely unavoidable. But this one's avoidable. If you think you're going to be very picky about reverb going forward, then one way or another you're going to need to treat reverb like an instrument to master. Fortunately, skill in one reverb transfers nearly directly between skill in any other reverb, so again, Work with what you've got for now. This is not an element that will hold you back.
#4 Bass line: Er... Generating the bass melody, or simply the sound texture for your bass? If it's the former, your best bet is to collaborate with another musician, and have them make part of the music. If it's the latter, then you're talking about synthesis and sound design. Like item #1, this is also a place where your only way to get a foothold is through specificity and emulation. But developing synthesis sound design is a bit of a long term project, so if you want to set that project aside, then I hear there's some VST's that are more preset oriented. Nexus, maybe? Not sure, never used it. But I know others can help on that.
#5 Piano is versatile; I promise you much of, or most of your piano is perfectly applicable, if it's a piano part you're looking for. If you want other textures though, we're back talking about synthesis, and all of what I wrote in the prior point applies. If you need some means of browsing different keys sounds, then indeed your best bet will be to get just one solid VST with a lot of good presets. Most synths come with a lot of presets, in addition to their full flexibility, but there's also some VST's that focus more on the presets at the expense of flexibility. Both are viable, it's just a matter of deciding what's right for you. I'm guessing the latter, based on what you've said.
#6 How to keep up to date with all the latest toys:
Don't do this. This is potentially musical suicide. And wallet suicide. And if you're pirating your software, buzz off; your commitment is lacking.
A better approach is to identify if you're being held back by a specific tool, one at a time. At present, this is very unlikely, unless you completely lack a synthesizer, DAW, sampler, or some other foundational tool. The most likely scenario is that 99% of what holds you back, or represents a hurdle, comes down to your level of experience, and your knowledge base. Your mental bank of practical techniques, and your mental map of the big picture. This is where everyone starts.
In this case, you might consider finding some books on electronic music production, and you might make a habit of searching youtube for studio interviews and how-to videos, as YouTube is the modern musician's knowledge goldmine. Some magazines might be helpful, occasionally, in the first couple years. KVR and other music communities are also incredible resources, if you're the forum sort.
But this is in stark contrast to how you presented the problem: an issue of gear, and acquiring the right tools, like VST's and sample packs. This is not the case - Electronic music is very much about the craftsman in spite of their tools. ...Though, admittedly, a mix engineer at the end of a project certainly helps.
If all this sounds critical, rude, or patronizing, you have my sincere apologies. I'm just trying to level with you and help out, as there's a lot to learn, and a lot of pitfalls that I hate seeing people fall into.
Feel free to hit us with more questions, the more specific the better.
I'd guess that a large majority of the more popular artists are much more freewheeling or DIY, and just roll with whatever they have, make things fit without some larger sound palette in mind. Then have a mix engineer shine it up near the end. This has the massive side benefit of fostering productivity through limited choice, and avoiding decision paralysis. They probably have tons of songs with bad/stupid drums, but the minority of good tracks are the only ones you hear, each of them come upon via the inevitable probability that with lots of iteration & projects, something will eventually click.
So when you say "that sound," I'm skeptical it's actually a coherent pattern, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to illustrate.
Regarding point #2, there's a lot of ways to alter vocal samples, most of which can be done with a basic DAW, so I suspect you might want to give a specific example you'd like to emulate. The field is so wide open that it's difficult or impossible to speak generally - we could be talking about vastly different things while using the same language. So specificity is crucial in this area. With it, we can then tie it to actual techniques to put in your tool belt. Ambiance and vibe is merely the outcome, but technique is the means. You can tangibly work with one, but not so much the other. So post up a sample, say "how do I make that specific sound?" and then we're in business.
#3, You're probably better off sticking with the reverb you have, and getting the most out of it. At least, until you better understand what you're doing, what you're going after(technically), and how it potentially sounds as-is. When you're in new grounds like you find yourself now, you're overloaded with variables, and the last thing you ought to do is introduce more. Unless it's absolutely unavoidable. But this one's avoidable. If you think you're going to be very picky about reverb going forward, then one way or another you're going to need to treat reverb like an instrument to master. Fortunately, skill in one reverb transfers nearly directly between skill in any other reverb, so again, Work with what you've got for now. This is not an element that will hold you back.
#4 Bass line: Er... Generating the bass melody, or simply the sound texture for your bass? If it's the former, your best bet is to collaborate with another musician, and have them make part of the music. If it's the latter, then you're talking about synthesis and sound design. Like item #1, this is also a place where your only way to get a foothold is through specificity and emulation. But developing synthesis sound design is a bit of a long term project, so if you want to set that project aside, then I hear there's some VST's that are more preset oriented. Nexus, maybe? Not sure, never used it. But I know others can help on that.
#5 Piano is versatile; I promise you much of, or most of your piano is perfectly applicable, if it's a piano part you're looking for. If you want other textures though, we're back talking about synthesis, and all of what I wrote in the prior point applies. If you need some means of browsing different keys sounds, then indeed your best bet will be to get just one solid VST with a lot of good presets. Most synths come with a lot of presets, in addition to their full flexibility, but there's also some VST's that focus more on the presets at the expense of flexibility. Both are viable, it's just a matter of deciding what's right for you. I'm guessing the latter, based on what you've said.
#6 How to keep up to date with all the latest toys:
Don't do this. This is potentially musical suicide. And wallet suicide. And if you're pirating your software, buzz off; your commitment is lacking.
A better approach is to identify if you're being held back by a specific tool, one at a time. At present, this is very unlikely, unless you completely lack a synthesizer, DAW, sampler, or some other foundational tool. The most likely scenario is that 99% of what holds you back, or represents a hurdle, comes down to your level of experience, and your knowledge base. Your mental bank of practical techniques, and your mental map of the big picture. This is where everyone starts.
In this case, you might consider finding some books on electronic music production, and you might make a habit of searching youtube for studio interviews and how-to videos, as YouTube is the modern musician's knowledge goldmine. Some magazines might be helpful, occasionally, in the first couple years. KVR and other music communities are also incredible resources, if you're the forum sort.
But this is in stark contrast to how you presented the problem: an issue of gear, and acquiring the right tools, like VST's and sample packs. This is not the case - Electronic music is very much about the craftsman in spite of their tools. ...Though, admittedly, a mix engineer at the end of a project certainly helps.
If all this sounds critical, rude, or patronizing, you have my sincere apologies. I'm just trying to level with you and help out, as there's a lot to learn, and a lot of pitfalls that I hate seeing people fall into.
Feel free to hit us with more questions, the more specific the better.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 3 posts since 17 Mar, 2016
Hi MOK19. First of all, I would like to thank you for taking your time on such a detailed answer, was positively impressed by such a commitment! Deeply appreciated and I won't argue with your main argument that it's all about craftsmanship and making the best use of what you have. Your comments about each of the points are also fair and I admit I wasn't specific enough in my questions, so I will try to be more specific this time:
1. How can I add that "twisting effect" to a sample like here in the intro this
2. I also would love to find something like an arpegiator like here starting from 12 sec
https://soundcloud.com/iwantthatsound/c ... ples-demos
Was going through VST version of minimoog, but I couldn't reach anything similar. I am aware that an experienced e-musician would propably make sounds like that from the start, but that's not me yet. So if there is a tool which is more simple and present oriented as well as very recognizable in sound, I would appreciate your advice!
3. Regarding the bassline, I think for most of it i will go with adapting electric bass guitar (got a pretty cool vibe effect when added a tremolo) , but I would also appreciate your personal insights regarding deep electronic bass arpedgio like here from 10 sec
https://soundcloud.com/iwantthatsound/c ... pop-demo-4
Thanks you so much for your kind help
1. How can I add that "twisting effect" to a sample like here in the intro this
2. I also would love to find something like an arpegiator like here starting from 12 sec
https://soundcloud.com/iwantthatsound/c ... ples-demos
Was going through VST version of minimoog, but I couldn't reach anything similar. I am aware that an experienced e-musician would propably make sounds like that from the start, but that's not me yet. So if there is a tool which is more simple and present oriented as well as very recognizable in sound, I would appreciate your advice!
3. Regarding the bassline, I think for most of it i will go with adapting electric bass guitar (got a pretty cool vibe effect when added a tremolo) , but I would also appreciate your personal insights regarding deep electronic bass arpedgio like here from 10 sec
https://soundcloud.com/iwantthatsound/c ... pop-demo-4
Thanks you so much for your kind help
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- KVRAF
- 1595 posts since 17 Nov, 2007 from Seattle, WA
1) Hm. Well, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by twisting. But since you say it's in the intro, then I assume it's the very first sound. That's a synthesizer patch playing some chords, using detuned oscillators. If these sorts of sounds interest you, then down the road getting good with a synthesizer will be helpful.Blacksheep581 wrote:Hi MOK19. First of all, I would like to thank you for taking your time on such a detailed answer, was positively impressed by such a commitment! Deeply appreciated and I won't argue with your main argument that it's all about craftsmanship and making the best use of what you have. Your comments about each of the points are also fair and I admit I wasn't specific enough in my questions, so I will try to be more specific this time:
1. How can I add that "twisting effect" to a sample like here in the intro this
2. I also would love to find something like an arpegiator like here starting from 12 sec
https://soundcloud.com/iwantthatsound/c ... ples-demos
Was going through VST version of minimoog, but I couldn't reach anything similar. I am aware that an experienced e-musician would propably make sounds like that from the start, but that's not me yet. So if there is a tool which is more simple and present oriented as well as very recognizable in sound, I would appreciate your advice!
3. Regarding the bassline, I think for most of it i will go with adapting electric bass guitar (got a pretty cool vibe effect when added a tremolo) , but I would also appreciate your personal insights regarding deep electronic bass arpedgio like here from 10 sec
https://soundcloud.com/iwantthatsound/c ... pop-demo-4
Thanks you so much for your kind help
For now, finding a newbie friendly synth with lots of good presets will best facilitate getting some work done. If you don't already have a decent synthesizer, then I'd suggest posting a topic where you ask, "I have no synth experience and want to choose just one that will help me start creating now, with good sounds." Something like that. Would fit in the getting-started sub-forum, or the Instruments sub-forum. Though it's 100% certain that people have asked this before, and you'd benefit more from reading back in those forums, and seeing what people are saying beyond just one forum post or forum member's opinion.
If you already have a synthesizer, like what usually comes with just about any DAW, and you don't mind learning a bit about synthesis sooner than later, then you might ask how to make that patch in the Sound Design sub forum. But before doing that, I'd suggest digging up the synth's manual, and reading it cover to cover. The best move an electronic musician can make is to read a handful of manuals for their primary tools(your DAW, your synth, and your sampler in particular). Here's also , it's a good, easy first step.
2) The 16th note bassline? I don't really hear an areggiation in there. Something approaches an arp at 0:08 in the mid register, but it's simple enough that if it were me, I'd just draw in those notes manually. But to be clear, you're talking about a the bassline synth patch? This is pretty doable, but patches usually deserve their own thread since sometimes they take some wordcount to explain. Take a look at different posts in the sound design forum to get a sense of the bigger picture, also.
Sounds like the minimoog emulation VST would be a good tool to use - I'm pretty sure it will be able to accomplish most synth sounds you'll hear, especially in synth pop. But as you noted, using it with confidence lies down the road. In the meantime, what I mentioned in point #1 applies - ask around for a good beginner VST with lots of great, simple presets. Some synths make lots of technically complex sounds, but synth pop thrives on the simpler sounds.
3) This sound would be a good place to start if you were to make a sound design thread asking how to make a patch. This one's more straightforward.
But like any patch, it will rely on your ability to recognize a synth's controls, so first read that manual, or at least check that video series I linked, above. You'll also get some great mileage from searching randomly on youtube, there's tons of videos , or , that explain how to make different kinds of patches.
Tangentially related, some of the videos can be a little useful for broader context, but they never go into great detail. And they usually focus excessively on gear, especially outboard gear. Don't fall for that meme, 100% software is just fine.
Synth tutorial videos start out as confusing and arcane because you don't know what knob is what. But the truth is that just about all these synthesizers are the very same, with the same sorts of controls. Besides their varied looks, their differences are very minor. They're essentially identical to the last synth you were fiddling with. Same with hardware synthesizers - same controls, they do the same thing, make the same sounds, have basically the same capabilities and methods at their core.
Also, although a fast note pattern like what you mention in #3 can be done with a synth's arpeggiator, that's not an arpeggio. An arpeggio represents a chord, when all the notes are put together. Minor nitpick. But careful language gets annoyingly important in talking about this stuff, because it can be so precise and hard to describe otherwise.
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- KVRAF
- 1595 posts since 17 Nov, 2007 from Seattle, WA
... I just checked in, and for some reason wasn't logged in. And when I looked at my above post, it had huge youtube squares embedded, breaking up the post. Is that normal? Does anyone else see that? I'd only meant to have hyperlinks. anyone?