Try before buy

[chk071]

Don't worry, no warez glorification here. Just a recommendation, which should be clear for the most part of the people here anyway, but i thought i'd make this thread anyway, because there are so many "Tell me which is the best synth", or "Which is the best effect for use case XY" threads, and people seem to generally rely on others opinions too much.

So, 2 examples of why that is as wrong, and as unsatisfactory as it can get. Example 1: I read here a couple of times how great the Korg Legacy plugins are. And how the MS-20 plugin should be particularly good for bass sounds. Ok, i don't want to talk it bad, i believe it works for a lot of people, and it also should work for certain musical genre. The thing is just, i bought the thing based on those recommendations, only demoing it myself briefly. I ended up with a plugin which i not only totally disliked because of the sound (the oscillators sound boring, and "dry" to me, the filters scream like hell, and are not very creamy, or juicy to my ears), but also the whole concept of the synth, the scrollable GUI, and the fact that i need to use the patch field to route things for certain uses is not at all appealing to me. So i sold it. Should have learned from it. But i didn't.

Example 2: Valhalla Vintage Verb. People recommended it here, saying how it replaced VRoom for their uses, and how generally they liked the sound and concept. I must say i did demo VRoom before buying it, and i really liked its sound. Then i bought Vintage Verb (again, after demoing it only briefly), because it also appealed to me that the GUI is nice, clear, doesn't overwhelm you with options, and that there are so many different algos to choose from. What can i say, i really tried to like it, fiddled with it much, tried to find a setting which overall pleased me with the sounds i'm making. Couldn't find it. It seemed so totally coloured, and, pardon, "vintage" to me. Thing is, i don't want to sound vintage. I tried to make it sound as clean as VRoom, but i really couldn't find a setting which came remotely near. So, end of story, i sold it again, and bought VRoom, which gives me what i need.

I have demo'd my other stuff quite thoroughly on the other hand, and i'm still content with it, and probably will keep it for a while. But the stuff i only demo'd briefly, and bought it mainly on recommendations, or opinions by other users, didn't really work for me. It's very, very personal and subjective. So, if you want a recommendation from me, don't, i mean, really, DON'T buy stuff based on other user's recommendation. It won't make you happy, in fact, it's a really sh**ty feeling to have bought something you're not content with. It will be a pain. Hope this is useful for the one or the other. Don't get me wrong too, i appreciate the opinions, knowledge, and infos here. It's just that, in the end, you have to decided based on your own preferences, and those, as i wrote, are pretty personal.

[sprnva]

It really should be common sense to demo first, but it can be easy to get talked into buying something. Especially if there's a hot deal going on at the time. So it's good to bring this up.

I always demo where possible and can often find that I don't get what other people do. Like you say, it's subjective.

[chk071]

Yep. Frankly, i simply don't know why i didn't demo the said plugins more thoroughly. Probably just laziness. Got burned, and now i hopefully know better. If not, this thread will remind me next time.

[BBFG#]

Okay, I'll weigh in here...

First of all, a demo can only get you so much. While it mostly can give you a fair representation of what you're getting, there is no way it can predict how you will react with it in every moment of owning it. I venture to say, that with almost everything I own for ITB plugins, I have good days and bad days. Sometimes opening something up after a time and wondering why I haven't used this great plugin for awhile and other times opening one up and wondering what the 'F' I was thinking when I bought it.
I've learned to simply put it away on those days I'm not getting along with it, and visit it again in the future.

If for some reason, it continually stays 'bad' or gets worse (and I've adopted the u-he 'keep it for nine months' before deciding whether I want to keep it or not) - but if it doesn't work out, move it on to someone that can work it better than I did.

Another however though, is that a demo doesn't really tell you about dealing with the company itself, and just like dating, it seems every developer is on their best behavior during the courtship phase until you commit by buying it. Some then really show themselves to be flakes or total narcissistic abusers then. And again, regardless of the plugin and/or its promises, it's much better to simply off the headache the developer or support make it.

Lately, the way updates are handled has also come into question for me, and I find the number one reason to limit and minimize the ITB products is simply to keep the update list to a reasonable amount. I hate these days where I end up spending a half to a whole day in updates and not doing any recording at all.

Of the two you mentioned, I have to say the best things about the Korg Legacy Collection is its price and footprint. I use them almost exclusively for my tablets for being solid and non-CPU consuming portable carry anywhere solutions. Thing is, I also find them to surprise me with sometimes being the perfect instrument in the mix on my big idea computers (but again, I have my 'good days' and 'bad days' with its sound).

After checking through the Valhalla products and deciding I'm pretty set in the reverb department for now, the one thing I find they do special that I still entertain in buying is Shimmer. I did download their free Frequency Shifter for being something different also, and while I haven't yet used it in any meaningful way, believe I will eventually find a use for it.

Where KVR has really helped me (beyond the fan and troll 'yay or nay') is not nearly as much in the product itself as it is the developer/company. I find those knock down drag outs to eventually be the most helpful in awakening the buyer beware. Even then, it's still all a risk until we each make our own decision to 'buy the ticket - take the ride" of personal experience,

[DodgingRain]

I guess this is true if you live in an instant gratification world and don't feel the need to put any effort into anything or maybe it works for very simple things. I don't see how one can determine if a tool will be ok when the tool has thousand or millions of possibilities without putting time into it. A ten day or fifteen day demo isn't long enough especially for more complex instruments.

But yes, obviously if money is an issue you should be demo'ing. You should always be making your own decision on what to buy regardless of demo'ing, just doing what everyone else does or says is being a sheep.

If money isn't that much of an issue then I don't see much need for demo'ing especially when most stuff can be resold for very little loss.

Ultimately most tools these days are so capable that any of them will do the job with some effort and if they don't it's the user not the tool.

[chk071]

Good points. Of course a demo period can't substitute months of working with it, especially as plugins are pretty complex in the most cases. Yet i think that nothing beats demo'ing the cr** out of a plugin before buying it. Over days, because, as BBFG# wrote, there are always "good" and "bad" days. Sometimes you simply feel like everything you create, or use sucks, on other days, almost everything will be shiny. Although i'm also convinced that even on "good" days, you'd be able to judge if something isn't quite perfect, or just doesn't work for you.

[Schiffbauer]

Yes – you´re right.
Everyone has it´s own taste and the application possibilities are different.
Everyone makes different music and uses plugins or synths in other personality
ways. So no one can tell it right.
Before I´m going to buy something new, I listen to some demos (if available) and download
a demo version, of course. It´s equal, if there´s noise or time-outs… if there´s a need and
I like it - i buy it.
In forums (KVR or other), the opinions are divided, because of different characters and
perceptions of the people. And I don´t follow the set of the public opinion.

For example, most people say, buy a VW or Audi, but I personally know, these are shitty cars
and are not worth the half of their price……
Of all my purchases of plugins or synths, I was never disappointed (unless developers
or companies died in last times).
Especially that little companies or one-man-dev´s are very friendly and their support is famous.

But anyone is seeing that quiet differently. Don´t you…?

[Schiffbauer]

doubled post

[pdxindy]

I give plenty of demo time before buying, sometimes months... (unless it is a new Valhalla reverb with both VVV and VPlate purchased un-demoed)

Even so, I expect that some number of purchases will end up mostly unused.

[wagtunes]

A long time ago, I started a thread asking for synth recommendations with very specific requirements to try to narrow down the list I was given. I even posted a list of every synth I already owned so that nobody would suggest a synth I already owned.

I was presented with a list of over 20 synths.

What did I do?

I downloaded every demo that I could and tried it out. Some I hated because the GUIs were horrible to work with. Some I simply didn't like the sound. Some were buggy as hell. Some, I felt were too expensive for what they offered compared to synths I already owned. One synth in particular I didn't like the way they designed the mod wheel system. I thought it was totally unintuitive.

But I didn't go and buy 20 synths because I was recommended 20 synths.

Ultimately, I ended up buying Z3ta+2, Dune 2 and Diva. The only purchase I wasn't totally thrilled with was Z3ta+2 but at 50 bucks, it was no big deal. But Diva and Dune 2, two of my favorite synths for what they do.

The synths I passed up?

Symtohm
Diversion
AIR Loom
Rhino
Oxium
Synplant
Enzyme
Spire
Razor
Lush 101
Roland SH2
CRX4
Helix
Surge
VirtualCZ
Sunrizer
Tera 3

Now, when they had the latest auction and I was able to get Spectal and two other synths for a total steal, CRX4 being one of them, I did eventually get that one. Was originally not wild about the sound, but it's grown on my since.

Point is, no, you can't go entirely by recommendations. You need to demo a synth for yourself. And even then, it may take a while to figure out if it's for you. Or a day may come when you outgrow it. We are not static beings. Our tastes change. Our expectations change.

But I would never just buy a synth because somebody said, "Hey Wags, you gotta get this synth."

That's when you start getting into trouble.

[Ridan]

Never bought a synth i couldn't demo first. This is mostly due to having a fairly shoddy computer/sound card. Some synths that are known to have high CPU like Serum, for example, aren't too hard on my CPU, compared to others that don't have the same CPU hogging rep..like2nd Sense Audio's "Wiggle", or any of Madrona Labs synths. Can't handle even one instance of any of those.

It's important to try anything before you buy if you can help it. Especially if you're on a budget.

Don't necessarily agree that the 15 days or under trials aren't long enough to test the more complicated synths. Unless you are just super busy, which would be understandable. If i were even slightly certain that i might want a specific synth, 15 days would definitely give enough time to decide. If i were that much on the fence about buying it in the first place, and 15 days weren't long enough then chances are i don't need it.

As Schiffbauer pointed out, it's all in how you see it (at least i think that's what he was saying)

It's also a huge plus to see developers spending time on thorough introduction, and "see what all is inside" videos. If they can't be bothered with that or hire someone to make the videos then chances are i won't even try the demo, let alone purchase it.

[V0RT3X]

This would defeat the purpose of GAS though and is not recommended..

[Ridan]

This would defeat the purpose of GAS though and is not recommended..

Probably the most valid point so far.

[V0RT3X]

This would defeat the purpose of GAS though and is not recommended..

Probably the most valid point so far.

Ikr

[dsan@mail.com]

^^
When I first go into this I was buying this and buying that, as much as I could.

Now, I got a lot of this and a lot of that and still can't make decent music

But at least I've run out of GAS