KVR Audio

chimp_spanner · Post by **chimp_spanner** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:13 am

Hey all! Bit of a puzzler this.

I'm using an Acer Aspire 2012WLMi, with an M-Audio FW410. I run Nuendo 2. The problem is, at 128 buffer setting (5ms latency) roughly every minute, there are two clicks. The first (and this is wierd) happens at the input stage, if that makes any sense - like if you have reverb on the channel, then you hear the click...with a reverb tail on it. Shortly after, there is another click, but this one happens in the audio engine itself (so the second click is at the output stage...probably using the wrong terms here). If I up to 256 (8ms) it's perfect, no probs. Trouble is, 8 ms is fine for keyboard. But I can really feel the difference between 8, and 5ms when I play faster passages on guitar. At first I thought this wasn't a real problem cos I didn't think it would come out during recording, but it does *cries*.

It can't be that I'm placing too much load on the CPU, as I tested this with one track using Amplitube, and the bog standard reverb in Nuendo2, which drew about....3% CPU or something silly like that?! And playing back a whole project with 128 buffer size, the CPU usage is almost no different than if I were to set it to 256 - no spikes, no overloading.

I don't think this is a Centrino/P-M thing - the machine, despite it's 1.5Ghz clock speed absolutely flies. I'm really happy with it! Dya think this could just come down to immature drivers? Anyone using an FW410 with latency < 8ms?

Chaars!!

- Paul

chimp_spanner · Post by **chimp_spanner** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:53 am

Okay, fixed it...kinda lol I'm still using 256 buffer size, but someone told me that if you operate at your soundcards "native" sample rate, the latency reduces dramatically. In my case, running at 96Khz uses way too much CPU, so I went up from 44.1, to 48, and while the output latency in Nuendo reads the same, it definitely feels slightly lower, and certainly more acceptable. The mysterious double click is gone. I think I've heard maybe 3 really really tiny pops in the last....however many minutes its been since I posted, and they definitely wouldn't come out "in the mix". So I'm uber happy!!!!!! Still sucks that the FW410 just isn't happy monitoring live input at 5ms though, don't ya think? :-\

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:39 am

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chimp_spanner · Post by **chimp_spanner** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:43 am

Yeah, I'd agree. Thing is it's a little annoying cos I spent a month with no studio, cos I sold my kickass desktop machine to get an Acer 1501LCe (Athlon64 3000) which...wouldn't play any audio for more than 2:30 without a 10-30ms dropout. So I got this one as "compensation", and the last thing I wanna hear is any pop or click lol but as you say, my machine is up to it. And I notice that 8ms seems to be the average latency around here (I'm guessing most of you are keyboardists?).

In any case, I can still get things done on 8ms (the change to 48khz didnt make a difference, must of been in my head hehe) until M-Audio sort their stuff out and release some stable drivers.

n9 · Post by n9 » Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:21 am

I am a guitarist and I run my powerbook (867mhz g4) at 3ms with a emagic A62M USB audio interface and my PC (1.7ghz celeron) at 5ms with a MOTU 828 firewire unit. Both machines can go lower, though, without pops but I get more CPU to play around with if I keep them a little higher.

When I go to mix down I'll jack the latency up on my machines to the maximum, though, to ensure there are no glitches. That being said, I very rarely have a pop or glitch of any kind.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:57 am

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ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:59 am

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dreammaka · Post by **dreammaka** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:07 am

I think FW410 has driver problem.

I have Dual 2 ghz G5 but still I can't go lower than 8ms of
latency.

I put mine on 256 ~ 512 sample. it gives me 10~18ms
which is OK for me but sucks anyways.

So I'm considering getting a MOTU 828mk2 in near future.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:10 am

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ik · Post by ik » Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:59 am

I don't have a FW410 but a FW audiophile.
Strangely, if I use it with OPlat, I can not
go below 256 (asio buffer size). When I use it
with Kristal or eXT, I can set it even to 64(!)
with no glich at all. (Pentium M centrino, 1.4 GHz; 512 MB)
So different programs handle asio differently?
ik.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:02 am

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chimp_spanner · Post by **chimp_spanner** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:12 pm

ttoz wrote:
chimp_spanner wrote:Yeah, I'd agree. Thing is it's a little annoying cos I spent a month with no studio, cos I sold my kickass desktop machine to get an Acer 1501LCe (Athlon64 3000) which...wouldn't play any audio for more than 2:30 without a 10-30ms dropout. So I got this one as "compensation", and the last thing I wanna hear is any pop or click lol but as you say, my machine is up to it. And I notice that 8ms seems to be the average latency around here (I'm guessing most of you are keyboardists?).

In any case, I can still get things done on 8ms (the change to 48khz didnt make a difference, must of been in my head hehe) until M-Audio sort their stuff out and release some stable drivers.
so yo're saying that the fw410 in particular had problems with the athlon 64??? an a64 3000 which runs at roughly 1.7ghz from memory should easily be able to kep up with your pentium-m..

Hey! Um, nah the problem with my A64 was way deeper than that. It happened even with the onboard AC97. And lots of other 1501LCe users have reported the same problem (over at the AMD mobile processor support forum).

Anyway, this is good, and bad. It's good cos it means my laptop is not at fault, just as well, cos I really like it

It's bad cos it means I'm gunna have to start shopping around for a new audio interface, and having spend t £800 on the laptop (mine is worth £1000+ but they let me have it as compensation hehe), and nearly £600 on a new guitar, I'm a little loathe to spend any more money. I think I will try and get my laptop to a store though, and try a different brand out. See if it makes any difference!

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:53 pm

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chimp_spanner · Post by **chimp_spanner** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:36 pm

Yeah I will do!!! I mean it's a tad worrying to see that latencies in the 8ms order are accepted as "good". Well, worrying for me. As I said, that's fine for keyboards, but with something as tactile as guitar, you can really feel the delay. And I'm used to latencies of around 2 ~ 5ms. In this day and age, with processors and interfaces as fast as they are, that shouldn't be too much to expect.

I've emailed M-Audio support, see if they can throw some light on this.

< 8ms Latency - is it even possible with FW410?