KVR Audio

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:55 pm

I've been scratching my head trying to make sense out of a recent thread here when it finally did get me thinking to an old Outer Limits episode from the mid 60s.

It was the one with David McCallum. In it, there is a line where he statesn "Man does not create but procreates" or something to that effect. Been a long time since I've seen the episode.

But that line has always stayed with me and looking at the state of VST development and music in general, I'm leaning more towards agreement than disagreement.

It seems that every VST that comes out is, in some way, just a variation or expansion of a similar idea. There is nothing really truly unique. Sure, when the first wavetable synth was created, it was unique. But now, every WT synth since is just a variation on the idea. And it's the same with every form of synthesis that we know of.

Where is the truly unique "never done before" stuff?

Maybe the answer is there simply can't be. If somebody made a synth where you programmed it by combining knob turns like you did with the old Etch-A-Sketch, would anybody buy it? With no recognizable parameters, what would the manual have to look like? Would anybody even understand it? Since, ultimately, most people who create these things are doing it to make money, it's pointless to create something "different" just for the sake of being different if it ends up as years of wasted research time and money.

So as a result, we just get more variations of the same old stuff.

The only truly unique synth that I have seen since buying VSTs back in 2013 is Synplant. I didn't buy it because I wasn't particularly thrilled with the sound. But I give it major props for being different.

But that's it. Cycle comes kind of close but the darn thing is so convoluted and buggy that I gave up on it a long time ago.

This isn't to say that we haven't procreated some really nice synths. We have.

But I'd still love to have that Etch-A-Sketch like VST to make sounds with.

I think it could be really, really cool.

PS - If anybody knows any really way out synths that have great sounds, I'd love to know. But please, when I say way out, I mean way out. No VA, no wavetable, no modulars, no hybrids. I mean something really, really out there.

fisherKing · Post by **fisherKing** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:22 pm

i think most of us are trying to make music, and look for musical synths (and that covers a lot of ground, of course). what would something so 'way out' sound like? and what would it's purpose be?

arcsyn (which you know about) can get pretty out there. lots of plugins, with some experimentation, can do some pretty 'out there' things.

if you 'hear' something that's missing from what's available, team up with a programmer, create it. meanwhile, explore the limits of the plugins you do use, you should be able to get some scary I MEAN unusual sounds...

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:36 pm

fisherKing wrote:i think most of us are trying to make music, and look for musical synths (and that covers a lot of ground, of course). what would something so 'way out' sound like? and what would it's purpose be?

arcsyn (which you know about) can get pretty out there. lots of plugins, with some experimentation, can do some pretty 'out there' things.

if you 'hear' something that's missing from what's available, team up with a programmer, create it. meanwhile, explore the limits of the plugins you do use, you should be able to get some scary I MEAN unusual sounds...

I want a synth that can range from traditional flute sounds to this without using samples.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:38 pm

And can also do this.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:39 pm

And this

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:41 pm

And all of these

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:46 pm

Well, there has been a massive amount of growth in the diversity of synths just in the past ten years, not to mention the past forty or fifty years. Just look at the Reaktor user library for the incredible variety of what can be accomplished.

But at the end of the day, sound is an oscillating waveform. That waveform has certain qualities of frequency, amplitude, and timbre, varying over time. There is a source of that waveform and a means of modulating it. All other possibilities are contained within those constraints.

I think I'll pass on the Etch-a-sketch synth.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:53 pm

deastman wrote:Well, there has been a massive amount of growth in the diversity of synths just in the past ten years, not to mention the past forty or fifty years. Just look at the Reaktor user library for the incredible variety of what can be accomplished.

But at the end of the day, sound is an oscillating waveform. That waveform has certain qualities of frequency, amplitude, and timbre, varying over time. There is a source of that waveform and a means of modulating it. All other possibilities are contained within those constraints.

I think I'll pass on the Etch-a-sketch synth.

True, but certainly the means of creating those sounds can't have possibly been exhausted.

I mean does everything have to be osc, osc, osc, filter, filter, amp, lfo, fx and some kind of matrix of putting them all together?

Where is the real creativity in sound design?

I actually listened to Synplant again and it doesn't sound as bad as it did when I first demo'd it. However, if I recall, I think the GUI was on the small side. Don't remember.

Point is, all my synths, with one exception (Cycle) have a familiar architecture. They are all just variations on the theme.

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:57 pm

The 'everything else' forum is that way

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=4

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:06 pm

Daags wrote:The 'everything else' forum is that way http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=4

Except I don't consider wanting a truly unique synthesis engine in a VST everything else. Or have we all become so complacent that the next osc, osc, osc, filter, filter, lfo, fx etc, VST that comes out is perfectly fine even if it offers nothing really new?

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:09 pm

wagtunes wrote:Except I don't consider wanting a truly unique synthesis engine in a VST everything else.

The DSP and development sub-forum is this way:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=33

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:19 pm

Numanoid wrote:
wagtunes wrote:Except I don't consider wanting a truly unique synthesis engine in a VST everything else.
The DSP and development sub-forum is this way:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=33

I'm not a developer. I'm looking for somebody to create something that isn't the same old same old.

Unless of course there is simply no money in anything that isn't osc, osc, osc, filter, filter, lfo, fx.

Elektronisch · Post by **Elektronisch** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:27 pm

wagtunes,

i think you have way too much free time if you think of this and even analyze what is already obvious. Time is precious, dont waste it, life is too short.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:06 pm

Elektronisch wrote:wagtunes,

i think you have way too much free time if you think of this and even analyze what is already obvious. Time is precious, dont waste it, life is too short.

Except I don't consider this a waste of my time. If you consider it a waste of yours, why bother to even respond? If you have nothing constructive to add, there are other threads here more deserving of your time.

No?

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:10 pm

wagtunes wrote:Except I don't consider this a waste of my time. If you consider it a waste of yours, why bother to even respond? If you have nothing constructive to add, there are other threads here more deserving of your time.

What is your goal then, you are not a developer as stated by yourself.

Yet you crave new original stuff, do you think you can enslave some dev to do it for you.

The Outer Limits Principle