The Outer Limits Principle

[urlwolf]

Wag, have a look at glass viper if you want to see an unconventional approach to synthesis. Tiny GUI though. But just scroll through the presets. That thing is a monster. Pity it was not more successful commercially and the dev abandoned it.

[wagtunes]

Wag, have a look at glass viper if you want to see an unconventional approach to synthesis. Tiny GUI though. But just scroll through the presets. That thing is a monster. Pity it was not more successful commercially and the dev abandoned it.

Demo'd it a long time ago.

[Numanoid]

Wag, have a look at glass viper if you want to see an unconventional approach to synthesis. Tiny GUI though. But just scroll through the presets. That thing is a monster. Pity it was not more successful commercially and the dev abandoned it.

Demo'd it a long time ago.

...and what?

[wagtunes]

Wag, have a look at glass viper if you want to see an unconventional approach to synthesis. Tiny GUI though. But just scroll through the presets. That thing is a monster. Pity it was not more successful commercially and the dev abandoned it.

Demo'd it a long time ago.

...and what?

And (1) The GUI was way too small to work with and (2) I wasn't impressed with the sound.

[herodotus]

I want a synth that can range from traditional flute sounds to this without using samples.

(emphasis supplied)

Just out of curiosity, why is it important to avoid using samples?

[wagtunes]

I want a synth that can range from traditional flute sounds to this without using samples.

(emphasis supplied)

Just out of curiosity, why is it important to avoid using samples?

Because I don't want a sample based system. It's no more complicated than that.

[aMUSEd]

i think most of us are trying to make music, and look for musical synths (and that covers a lot of ground, of course). what would something so 'way out' sound like? and what would it's purpose be?

arcsyn (which you know about) can get pretty out there. lots of plugins, with some experimentation, can do some pretty 'out there' things.

if you 'hear' something that's missing from what's available, team up with a programmer, create it. meanwhile, explore the limits of the plugins you do use, you should be able to get some scary I MEAN unusual sounds...

I want a synth that can range from traditional flute sounds to this without using samples.

Many physical modelling synths can do that, e.g Chromaphone, Modelonia, some Reaktor ensembles, Tassman, Kaivo.

[aMUSEd]

In fact I made this track years ago that morphs between brassy horns to flutes and metallic scrapes and lots more using Modelonia and Kore 2 to do the morphing

http://tindeck.com/listen/fotv

[wagtunes]

In fact I made this track years ago that morphs between brassy horns to flutes and metallic scrapes and lots more using Modelonia and Kore 2 to do the morphing

http://tindeck.com/listen/fotv

Could you have done the exact same thing without Kore 2?

[aMUSEd]

Not easily, you probably could using automation but it would be complicated to setup and not in realtime.

[wagtunes]

Not easily, you probably could using automation but it would be complicated to setup and not in realtime.

Well, I want a synth that can do that all on its own. That was a great demo, but to need to pieces of equipment to do it, not what I'm looking for.

[aMUSEd]

Not easily, you probably could using automation but it would be complicated to setup and not in realtime.

Well, I want a synth that can do that all on its own. That was a great demo, but to need to pieces of equipment to do it, not what I'm looking for.

Problem is there are only a couple of plugins that could ever do that sort of realtime timbral morphing (at least without glitches - there are others that have tried but failed) - Alchemy and Kore 2, and they both got discontinued (or at least on one platform in Alchemy's case - I still have it)

As I said, you can do that just using Modelonia, basically you would create the base patches to morph between (these were largely my own) then work out what automation would enable you to transition smoothly between them. The beauty of Kore is you don't need to work that out, and Modelonia 2 does have a 2 pole morph slider that does some of the work (just not as effectively as Kore). So in principle it's not impossible and is just a form of electronic composition really.

[aMUSEd]

Then again I never saw this as using 2 bits of equipment, Kore 2 is just a specialised host that functions as a super instrument so I tend to see the plugins I load into it as the equivalent of oscs, modulators and effects, only I have an unlimited amount at my disposal and can create complex morphing multi patches with it.

[gremlinmoon]

I hate to be the one to say this. but based on your YT examples, ability-to-morph and no samples requirements I think I get what you are looking for. Essentially, you want what Tassman 5 was supposed to contain in terms of multiple and somewhat more advanced physical modeling "modules" [i.e. Air, Membrane, Metals, Electricity, Space, spectral,additive, etc...] with a GUI that allows each model/effect to be created using an alternate UX with parameters specific to each model. Then, there is the ability to morph between those modules -- so if there were 5 "modules" you were using, you could morph and travel between them.

All the raw building blocks and technology are already out there.

As a rough example, what if...you had money and could license a morphing engine from IRCAM, license physical modelling engines from AAS and xoxos, voice algos from Yamaha and VirSyn, reverb/space algos from take-your-pick, etc... and hire a small team of devs and UI/UX interface designers to glue it all together and fill in the cracks. It would literally be able to do any sound, and be able to morph between multiple sounds and be fairly manageable to do so without samples and traditional modulators and synth parameters if you adapted a Cube/Tera style morpher.

Numbers:
I bet it could be brought from the whiteboard to the store for $400,000 usd. Sell it for $200 usd and and make your money back after 2000 sales, sell 10,000 and you just made two million. Go NI or Ableton and create a dedicated controller for it and sell it in a bundle for $1000. Then create 10 more synths that roughly do the same thing and bundle them together. Then price each synth at $390/ea but you can get a Total Mega Complete bundle for only $420. But then each 18 month upgrade cycle is going to cost $350. If 10,000 people (the same ones you got 2 million from already commit to only 2 upgrades then you earn an additional 7 million dollars! I think that more than justifies an initial, measly, $400,000 investment. Of course take away taxes, pay back your investors and their dividends and accountant and legal fees and you are left with $12.50 cents. Wow, what a ride.

[pdxindy]

I want a synth that can range from traditional flute sounds to this without using samples.

Zebra and/or Bazille