Repro-1 (out now)

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To your ears, which filter behaves most analogue

1
87
22%
2
28
7%
3
88
22%
4
118
30%
5
74
19%
 
Total votes: 395

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Vesius wrote:Under less extreme settings, I still favoured 4. Although, I'd be the first to throw my hands up and say that could be confirmation bias as it was done after the extreme stuff. My natural response was to push it, and push it hard in all the ways I know digital filters struggle.

The reason I still preferred 4 was the resonance. I felt it 'sat' in the sound best - that is to say around the point of self-resonance it seemed most like it was 'in' the sound, rather than pasted on top of the sound. Interestingly, under those conditions, 1 put up a much stronger showing ... and those settings were relevant in my poll choice. I'm just an old war dog and know what I'm looking for and how to establish that very quickly - which doesn't mean of course that it's the best option for anyone else, or that it's technically the 'best' choice! 2 suffered here as there were points where it seemed to lose bass response. 3 did OK as did 5. But maybe I'd already been put off 3 and 5 because of the extreme tests.

That's my thought process as I'm conscious of it.
This was me too, pretty much exactly. In fact, I think I liked 4 best right off the bat before I tried to break things. To be fair, that wasn't very long. :oops: I do a test on every synth that has audio rate filter modulation. Take a square wave and crank it, while on osc 2 (or 3 if it's a Mini type emulation) make it a sine or triangle an octave down from osc 1 and have it modulate the cutoff. Then start experimenting on the resonance and listening to it all at different cutoff settings and at different octaves. #4 fared really well next to my Prophet 6 which I was doing identical things to throughout the process. Up until now, the only native software synths that really seem to do this well have been Monark/Blocks and Roland's System 100. I didn't have time to put it up against John Bowen's ProTone, but I will tomorrow if I get the chance. Today was a bit of a s-show... Literally (I have an almost potty trained 2 year old :lol: ) and we've got house guests coming who are expecting to live in my studio so I'm scrambling to make things nice, but I'll try.

Hey Urs. Can you spare a moment? Thanks. :hihi: The Pro 1 is a nice classic synth and I'm all for a good software version, but, what would really make me hit the PayPal account would be something that lived in that world and the world that the Pro 2 lives in. Smith's been all about digital oscillators for a long time and frankly I've got analog synths that RePro might equal, but what I don't have is say some cool wavetable engine, like the one in Zebra with that kick ass filter and CEM modeled socks. Now that would be a no-brainier and I think few would slight you if you literally just lifted that tech out of Zebra and made it an oscillator option. I suggest this because the original Prophet VS waves would be cool, but probably protected by a copywrite.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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I loved how many people started their rant on every new plugin with "dev, please make it a zdf or else I'm going to skip your product you've worked hard for years"
Nice to see these results already

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Filter #5 has 28 votes and filter #3 has 28 votes. Well Guys....
Murderous duck!

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Maybe we can get some mid-time commentary from urs, do you find the results so far interesting, surprising or what you expected? Ok, it's still very early but I'm just very curious hehe
circuit modeling and 0-dfb filters are cool

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It has been very interesting so far!

Some people have spotted exactly what I had hoped for, some have even unveiled flaws of weaker methods that I hadn't had on my radar.

The difficulty is not to find those flaws and strengths, but to attribute them to either analogue or digital filter sound. While people have great overlap in their description, some come to opposite conclusions. I guess I will have to write an in-depth summary and analysis of what people have said once we unveil the result.

The main message however is "yep there's audible difference between different ways to compute the filter". I'm still hoping to get some more feedback as to when things become audible, but hey, it's not even 24 hours since we posted it :)

My first impression: For a majority of useful sounds, a "black magic" mode would be indistinguishable from "divine".

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penguinfromdeep wrote:Maybe we can get some mid-time commentary from urs, do you find the results so far interesting, surprising or what you expected? Ok, it's still very early but I'm just very curious hehe
Hah, just did that, but I'll try a bit more in depth later.

I'm off to a short vacation from tomorrow, I think some distance will also be good for my judgement.

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Urs wrote:
I'm off to a short vacation from tomorrow, I think some distance will also be good for my judgement.
Nice! Have a nice vacation :tu:
circuit modeling and 0-dfb filters are cool

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Urs wrote:
My first impression: For a majority of useful sounds, a "black magic" mode would be indistinguishable from "divine".
But it'd still be cool to have access to it ;) I do know that what struck me (and others, zerocrossing I think) was how some of the filters (3 and 4) seemed to interact with the oscs in a peculiar and very nice sounding way. I do not know if this makes it analog, but it is certainly something I am looking for. The other time I noticed the importance of such a thing was when I heard comparisons between a real 303 and soft emulations. The hardware filter had an interaction with the oscs that the soft equivalent did not. That made a huge difference. Moreover, the fact that 3 behaves very well across the whole spectrum of modulation depth is really a deal maker :)

That said, wonderful work, the second I open RePro and found the filters that I liked the most, I was in Drexciyan land (that was my test, maybe not others' :)) Enjoy your vacation, we'll be all pushing RePro to its limits in the mean time.

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i'd find edgy 1 useful if it didn't suck out the lows/body from the sound so much. .
n.2 has a bit of the edgy bite of 1 but low frequencies at least are more present.
n.2 and n.5 have my favourite low end. 5 has the sweetest res to my ears.
3-4 are more mid-low pronounced.
ideally i'd like a switch from edgy(similar to 1-2) to smooth n.5.
Last edited by olikana on Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:32 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Well before reading all these pages, I did downloaded it and spent enough time with the filters.

I voted Number 3 because it has the nicest balance between smoothness and grittiness. Number 4 followed immediately. In fact I've spent a long time between filter 3 and 4 because it was hard for me to decide which one.

Congratulations Urs for such wonderful synth. I'm looking for the final commercial release :tu:

Ok, going now to read the whole thread!!
Using: Cubase Pro 15, Reason 13, Tascam US-4x4HR, MODX6, DM12D, LaunchKey 49, Yamaha guitar(Pacifica 612v) and bass (BB234) and some virtual instruments and synths.

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No easy choice but at the moment my vote was for filter #3. Not so easy to explain why but somehow i liked the sound of this one. Somehow IMO it also seemed to create "cleaner" resonant sweeps than the other filter models.

Filter #1 seems to be quite noisy or showing artifacts at higher resonances which should not happen with a proper ZDF filter and also not wit ha real analog synth.

UPDATE:
Many people here seem to like filter #4. Was quite hard to decide between that and #3. While i voted foe #3 i also like #4. Actually besides #1 and #2 the others seem to be mostly OK for me.
Last edited by Ingonator on Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
Ingo Weidner
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hehe, 1,3,4,5 are close in the voting. This will be a difficult decision for Urs. ;)

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Chris-S wrote:hehe, 1,3,4,5 are close in the voting. This will be a difficult decision for Urs. ;)
Hehehe, maybe not.

Many people have been spot on in their description, but only few drew the conclusion I would have expected. I will probably sum up the opinions and choices people made and explain what it is they hear.

We'll see. It's an intrigueing process!

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At extreme settings the nastiness of number 1 stands out from others. 2, 3 and 5 are smooth and well behaved and rather bland. 4 is somewhere between 1 and 2/3/5.

On the basis that VA filters are often better behaved than the real thing, I'll guess 1 or 4 is the most accurate model.

And 1 is so obviously different- if that's close to how u-he's Pro One behaves (it should be obvious from ABing against the real thing), then surely that has to be the model that makes it to the final version.

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hakey wrote:On the basis that VA filters are often better behaved than the real thing
Maybe they are "better behaved" because the developer couldn't drive them into serious territory without risking very "un-analogue" artifacts.

I spoke to Dave Rossum during Superbooth and asked him about the filter model in his new z-plane Eurorack module. It does audiorate modulation because it doesn't sport the same old same old digital filters that drive the majority of digital equipment. The unit wouldn't work had he used those filters.

(Nonetheless, RePro-Alpha does not feature any same old same old digital filters)

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