KVR Audio

Synthetic Wav · Post by **Synthetic Wav** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:28 pm

from my first test i wouldn t say it s the most analog sounding but the filter 3 would be more usefull their, i have to recheck more carefully but some other filters to me were sounding maybe more analog ( the 5 for example) but loose too much power in the high freques ,mean it will be great mostly for lower octave sound while the 3 seems more all round.
it was just a short test i will give it a other try with more accurate monitoring but have no experience with the pro one anyway..

autoy · Post by **autoy** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:31 pm

Here's my RePro patch for filter testing. These are extreme settings, so you can hear clearly what's going on with each filter. Hold a note and just listen to 2 and 5 fall apart while the other 3 keep up with audio rate modulations fine. 1 does stepping on the "howl" sound if you give it a couple of seconds holding C0 or whatever. Therefore: 3 and 4 winners for analogue behavior, the difference just being a little more body or low end on 4 but barely noticeable, could be just differences in tune.

Synthetic Wav · Post by **Synthetic Wav** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:43 pm

yeah i rechecked and for me the 3 is the only one that sound more or less right to my ears, it s just the balance is better while its may not be the most analog sounding one, it sound more "right" the others are not as natural sounding.
the frequency balance / resonance, fm all sound better balanced from low to highs on this one to me from my short test

Cyoon · Post by **Cyoon** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:01 am

Synthetic Wav wrote:yeah i rechecked and for me the 3 is the only one that sound more or less right to my ears, it s just the balance is better while its may not be the most analog sounding one, it sound more "right" the others are not as natural sounding.
the frequency balance / resonance, fm all sound better balanced from low to highs on this one to me from my short test

i agree on filter 3 to be somewhat the most stable. While filter 5 sounds rounder to me, Filter 3 has a nice aggressive sound.

Synthetic Wav · Post by **Synthetic Wav** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:05 am

filter 5 reminded me a bit what i don t like in moog filter , it will be good for some sound, but it s not versatile enought as the one and only filter on a synth for me, the highs sux there is none

Cyoon · Post by **Cyoon** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:18 am

Synthetic Wav wrote:filter 5 reminded me a bit what i don t like in moog filter , it will be good for some sound, but it s not versatile enought as the one and only filter on a synth for me, the highs sux there is none

true there is missing some highs. I just like how it acts in these transition areas, when dialing in resonance. The interaction between cutoff and res is quite smooth.

klinik · Post by **klinik** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:25 am

klinik wrote:Quick test at the laptop, I`ll try tomorrow at the studio:
Mostly playing with osc2 to vcf modulation at audio rate, first with triangle and then with pulse, varying the pulse with but mostly at the extremes, very narrow pulses. 3 is the winner for me, followed by 4 and then 1. 3 seem to me the most real sounding. 2 and 5 sound heavy filtered or bandlimited, no range of harmonics. 1 have lot of artifacts but is not bad as a Lo-fi version

Tested at the studio and its even more clear: 3 wins hands down. Comparing with the real filter sweep that urs posted is pretty obvious that 3 and 4 are the best "calculated" modes.
As I pointed early 2 and 5 seem to have some tricks (bandlimited??) and you miss most of the harmonics. I think some people relate that loss of harmonics with an analog behaviour (warm??? used to heard filtered sounds from analogs and not raw ones??)
No.1 is raw and I noticed what I think could be some aliasing and a lot of other digital artifacts but not as much aliasing as people thing; most of what you are hearing are NOT aliasing, including that graphic vesius posted.
Vesius, check whats the initial frequency for the filter and OSC, calculate the sum and diference pitches, all the harmonics and then at what frequency they should fall within the audible spectrum after "bouncing back" at 22.050Hz. That would be aliasing.

Synthetic Wav · Post by **Synthetic Wav** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:32 am

Suloo wrote:
Synthetic Wav wrote:filter 5 reminded me a bit what i don t like in moog filter , it will be good for some sound, but it s not versatile enought as the one and only filter on a synth for me, the highs sux there is none
true there is missing some highs. I just like how it acts in these transition areas, when dialing in resonance. The interaction between cutoff and res is quite smooth.

3 sound maybe a bit more "digital" but is better balanced making it the most allround ,4 and 5 sound maybe more analog

Cyoon · Post by **Cyoon** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:05 am

did you test at higher sample rates yet? Maybe less digital artifacts that way..

Vesius · Post by **Vesius** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:10 am

I agree it's not quite as clear cut as it first appears - the filter tries to 'blow up' on several occasions on the way up, but then equals out - however at that point it seems to develop more than the five harmonics it exhibits before that point, several of which move in ways which if they aren't aliasing might as well be - however, it looks exactly like aliasing to me - here's an improved screen shot. My guess would be that the method used to control the filter is perhaps causing distortion and generating harmonics in and of itself - why is why there is no point in doing actual calculation - we don't know what the frequency components it's trying to produce are at any point, so can't tell that way.

clearer aliasing.jpg

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:14 am

I just spent a lot of time listening at a healthy volume level doing extreme filter sweeps with high resonance, along with heavy modulation. 5 still sounds very vanilla. It's like there's no weight to the resonance. 1 falls apart when doing high res sweep. It's also probably 5db louder than the other filters at some settings, which makes it deceptively better sounding at normal settings, and it also lets in a bit more high end, which can sound very good at times. I still like chaotic and messed up this filter is though. It's a great noisemaker. Filter 4 can sound a bit like 1 at times. It's noisy, and can fall apart in certain places. The resonance at 2 can get a little weak on certain notes, where the resonance on 3 stays loud and just distorts loudly. I might be getting fooled by the perceived volume differences between these two filter models at certain settings, but I'm voting 3.

ATN69 · Post by **ATN69** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:28 am

Synthetic Wav wrote:
Suloo wrote:
Synthetic Wav wrote:filter 5 reminded me a bit what i don t like in moog filter , it will be good for some sound, but it s not versatile enought as the one and only filter on a synth for me, the highs sux there is none
true there is missing some highs. I just like how it acts in these transition areas, when dialing in resonance. The interaction between cutoff and res is quite smooth.
3 sound maybe a bit more "digital" but is better balanced making it the most allround ,4 and 5 sound maybe more analog

You are exactly right. 5 sound more analog because there is a slight cut in the high frequency area. It can be clearly seen in FFT. But maybe I am missing the Point here because I thought that was the goal, to have a more analogue sound to it, modelling an old analogue 2 osc mono synth?

bcm70 · Post by **bcm70** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:35 am

Urs wrote:
moscom_electronics wrote:
Test Repro.zip
A quick go on an analogue Pro-One, C3 then C5

http://www.u-he.com/urs/ProOneFilterFMSweep.mp3

ProOneFilterFMSweep.wav

Those second of those two audio samples just reinforces my belief that it's 1 or 4. That is almost exactly the sort of sound I was hearing when sweeping the filter on the settings I had whilst testing. Filters 2,3 and 5 didn't produce that sort of sound. 3 started to but it disappeared very quickly as I opened the filter.

The last little flourish on the second sample sounds like something from Pacman.

Future State · Post by **Future State** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:08 am

Having gone through, I feel that Filter 1 is the harshest. Filter 2 and 3 sound very similar, but 2 is a tad softer. Filter 4 is on the harsher end. Filter 5 is pleasantly dull. I like 2 and 5 the most, but I can't say they sound the most analog. They're just the ones I liked a little more.

bsterz · Post by **bsterz** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:19 am

I added some PWM via max to make a patch to see what this will sound like once it heads to full beta/release.

This does have a lot of the character of the Pro One with this sort of sound

I also went through some paces of the standard self-oscillation with keyboard tracking I like to do with synths to get more familiar with their filter, portamento, etc. Not all synths apply portamento to their filter keyboard tracking. Bravo Urs!

KVR Audio

Repro-1 (out now)

To your ears, which filter behaves most analogue